morning \o

up in sunny glasgow today

Morning 🙂

mogge 😼

morning. Today is the day my head and eyes don't do anything funny, right?

yesterday it was like the vhold was broken

Bore da

Morning

:thinking_face: dilemma: do i choose the osx emacs 26 with smoother scrolling (emacsformacosx) or the one with ligature support (railwaycat) ?

mornings!

Congrats, @peterwestmacott

Morning All 🙂

pop quiz: given that in ClojureScript (#{:a :b :c} :d :not-found!) => :not-found!, what does (#{:a :b :c} :d :not-found!) evaluate to in Clojure?

ArityException Wrong number of args (2) passed to

yeah - I was a bit disappointed by that.

sounds almost like bug...

as I would expect and to behave the same in this case.

poo, especially since clj does do ({:a 0 :b 1 :c 2} :d :not-found!) => :not-found!

there's already a ticket + patch for this in the clojure jira

ah, okay

yeah - I’d just completely assumed that that code would be fine when I moved it from Cljs to Clj, and then boom.

easy enough to fix with a get though

i've just put a job-description together, and would value any criticism or other commentary any of y'all have before i send it out into the world - https://www.yapster.info/developerjd

I am always vaguely annoyed by job ads that say 'competitive salary'

I would prefer to see a range on there

@mccraigmccraig I like it that you get your birthday off!

@conor.p.farrell that's a good point

> help us build product more quickly

"Fast-paced" is usually code for "mandatory unpaid overtime", but perhaps I'm too cynical

I like that you explain the technologies you use

I had the same thought… but if it’s honest, or that’s the culture and expectation then you’re better saying it. Otherwise you’ll hire people who you’ll fire or won’t fit etc.

ha, well i get to do plenty of unpaid overtime @conor.p.farrell, but i'm a founder so that's par for the course - we haven't generally expected that of our devs though

we're also pretty flexible about working hours and locations e.g. one of our guys is working from china for a couple of months

so maybe i should highlight that

:thumbsup:

If you're open to remote candidates (which you seem to be?), you should probably say so

yep - we are definitely open to remote - myself and all our developers are currently remote, although all within sufficient proximity of london for a weekly office day (when not in china obvs)

Personally I’ve taken the approach of just being honest, and trying to view the hiring process as a negotiation. I’m just a dev and no expert though; but I find too many hiring situations present themselves from a position of power. i.e. “we have a job, we’ll pay you money to do, but will interrogate you first and make you put up with our shit to do it”. If the organisation is actually like that, then fair enough; signal that in the advert and process, and no one will be disappointed. If the organisation is more friendly, relaxed, thoughtful, respectful of true hammock time, contemplation, and understanding of legitimate delays, aspire to quality etc… rather than always just crashing things out to meet a high pressure deadline then say that, and signal it with natural corporate-free language.

Kudos on writing a feminine-coded job advert, too 😉

I’ve always hired with an attitude of “we don’t know best… perhaps you do… I want to work with experts and equals and will treat you as such by viewing hiring as a conversation, and negotiation, not an interrogation. Are we right for each other, not are you right for us… we’re the best”

@mccraigmccraig way off topic, I can't close the cookie banner because the chat icon is over it.

Anyway it was only really the fast paced line that turned me off… otherwise the advert seems fine. Though perhaps reads more like a list of (admittedly cool) technologies that you get to use, rather than selling yourselves as fine people to work with. Including stuff about flexibility etc would perhaps help with that.

that's an excellent critique @rickmoynihan - thanks

I’m looking for volunteers to run workshops on Sunday 2nd December, the day before ClojureX conference. Last year I gave a workshop on ClojureScript & reagent (building Tic-TacToe game). Followed by @reborg with a wonderful deep dive into transducers. It was an excellent day and everyone learnt a great deal and had lots of fun too. So please let me know if you want to volunteer. Thank you.

Damn, doing interviews all day and I miss interesting chat

Morning

And g'night

@mccraigmccraig fwiw the ad reads well to me, and I love that you have a good overview of specific tech used (to a tech reader, it feels like written by another tech rather than HR, which makes it reliable.)

Nitpicks from diversity perspective: - +1 to the “competitive salary” as off-putting: I tend to read that as “we will exploit people who don’t know the market rates or can’t negotiate hard” (female unfriendly, women do worse in negotiations and ask for less when salary band is unclear.) - I’d maybe not put in “amazing” hire, unless you are actually looking for someone who thinks of themselves as amazing (not the same as actually amazing; another female unfriendly formulation as women are less likely to puff themselves up, and are prey to impostor syndrome more often.) I get that you as a company are going to hire if you think the person is amazing; use the wording that reflects what you want the candidate’s self image to match. Maybe imagine how you’d describe yourself to an employer during an interview, if you were a person applying to that position. Would you tell them you’re amazing?

“Fast paced” is fine, since it conveys cultural expectations. I see the personality reflected through the ad so I don’t miss the part of selling the team (but then one of the things I’m looking for is people passionate about tech, and excitedly listing all the cool toys you get to play with is a great sign XD )

On that subject, how is Cordova working out? I remember looking into it and then thinking that it’s probably suitable for a prototype but perhaps react native would be better, but can’t remember why

@lady3janepl thanks for all the commentary - i will digest

cordova is ok - when i started RN was ios only, so no use - i needed ios+android+web

were i starting anew i would go with RN, since now i could deploy to all 3 targets with it

but cordova is workable, and porting to RN is still plausible with our reagent+re-frame app