off-topic 2019-05-21 | Slack Archive

@UJCC6CE9E don't know if this makes a difference, but i have a symlink from ~/.atom/packages/chlorine to a cloned (and setup) repository of atom-chlorine -- i'm not running a version that's installed via atom -- if you aren't doing that and want to try, check out the "How to contribute?" at the bottom of the README.md in the atom-chlorine repository. my atom version is: 1.36.1 and i also have the ink package for atom installed.

nmkip02:05:30

My atom version is 1.37.0, also got ink installed. I'm running chlorine installed via atom. I'll try 🙂

nmkip02:05:31

thanks

nmkip02:05:44

i wonder if it has something to do with linux mint

sogaiu02:05:26

ah, if you haven't restarted atom since installing various packages, it's possible that might help

sogaiu02:05:38

not sure about the linux mint thing -- haven't used that in ages 🙂

nmkip02:05:00

😄

nmkip02:05:44

restarted atom maaaaaaany times

sogaiu02:05:06

lol, too bad that didn't help so far

nmkip02:05:55

Tomorrow I'll also try manjaro just in case it has to do with my current distro

sogaiu02:05:10

i don't know if any relevant info will show up, but if you ctrl+shift+i (developer console?) in atom, it's possible there might be something there

sogaiu02:05:22

sounds good

nmkip02:05:23

tried that, no info

nmkip02:05:42

i was expecting some helpful error

sogaiu02:05:02

it's unfortunate that atom and vscode both seem rather quiet from the perspective of debug info

nmkip02:05:24

haven't tried vscode for clojure yet, my two contestants are emacs and atom

sogaiu02:05:11

i usually use emacs, though with a custom repl -- i prefer atom to vscode philosophically, but frankly, vscode works better atm

nmkip02:05:01

I'm trying spacemacs atm I wanted to learn vim keybindings 😛

sogaiu02:05:26

i tried spacemacs for a while, but i fear i am too old for it 🙂

nmkip02:05:42

lol, why? xD

sogaiu02:05:06

well, vim keybindings aren't a problem, it's the decades of emacs-related wiring in my brain 🙂

nmkip02:05:01

oh, heheheh. I started using emacs some weeks ago, I was getting used to some of the keybindings but they weren't very intuitive

sogaiu02:05:03

it seems there are some interesting vim-based clojure tooling options coming into existence, is vim possibly worth considering? there's a #vim channel here too

sogaiu02:05:39

for emacs, i tend to use helm so i haven't had to learn too many odd keybindings recently

nmkip02:05:20

using helm in spacemacs, it's very nice

sogaiu02:05:44

it made emacs worth using for me again 🙂

nmkip02:05:39

I'm so used to Intellij. I know cursive exists but I want to use emacs / atom / maybe vim?

sogaiu02:05:39

one thing cursive has over everything else is its debugger though -- cider also has a debugger of sorts, but last i checked it's not as nice as cursive's

sogaiu02:05:10

fwiw, if you aren't familiar with it, here's a vid w/ the cursive author discussing the debugger in cursive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql77RwhcCK0

nmkip02:05:30

i watched a proto-repl video in atom where they used something like (save 1)

nmkip02:05:46

thanks, i'll check that out

sogaiu02:05:19

unfortunately, proto-repl development has stagnated...chlorine appears to be somewhat of a forked / continuation of sorts, iiuc

nmkip02:05:43

yes, read that in sean corfield's blog

nmkip02:05:01

I wanted to try atom + chlorine + rebl

sogaiu02:05:08

🙂 that's where i learned about chlorine too

sogaiu02:05:07

perhaps you'll get some helpful responses from mauricio.szabo or seancorfield before too long

nmkip02:05:14

I hope. I think manjaro (or maybe another distro) might be the solution.

john13:05:21

Interesting: "Since it is strongly normalising, it is decidable whether or not a simply typed lambda calculus program halts: in fact, it always halts. We can therefore conclude that the language is not Turing complete." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simply_typed_lambda_calculus#General_observations

Jimmy Miller14:05:20

Yeah, the connection with programming and the foundations of mathematics is really incredible. There are just a ton of connections. It is one of the things that make programming so beautiful to me.

Daniel Hines20:05:49

Thoughts on Cucumber as testing tool?

Paco20:05:49

If you are interested in doing it in clojure look at https://github.com/FundingCircle/jukebox

🥒 4

hiredman20:05:41

I was not very impressed last time I tried to use cucumber (which at the time meant spending a lot of work just trying to get it working)

hiredman20:05:22

the idea of writing tests in that style is very constraining, and it seems like will require maintenance of basically an adhoc parser

hiredman20:05:44

(but those impressions are from years ago and I didn't spend much time with it)

dominicm21:05:35

Cucumber is like clojure.test/are for English. (Over simplification, but true enough)

hiredman21:05:16

I think cucumber is based on the assumption that making tests/testing available to wider/non-technical audience is valuable. And trades off things to try and make that happen.

hiredman21:05:24

The problem is the initial assumption is almost always wrong, no one wants to read your tests, so the painstaking effort required to make them readable is almost always waste

👍 8

ericstewart21:05:52

I have found the Given/When/Then format helpful even without automating in Cucumber tests. Depends a lot on stakeholders

Daniel Hines21:05:05

The other alternative I’m considering is record actions->play them back->verify results in DB. The app I’m testing is a tangled mess of a desktop app, but I can tap into the logs and infer actions from that, which could then be used to generate API calls to “play back” the actions again.

vemv21:05:14

Personally I use the following, it gives me the 80% of what meatier DSLs would

(defmacro context
  {:style/indent 1}
  [s & body]
  `(clojure.test/testing ~s ~@body))

(defmacro it
  {:style/indent 1}
  [s & body]
  `(clojure.test/testing ~s ~@body))

testing == given context == when it == then

Daniel Hines21:05:00

I think the best case scenario would to record actions to generate the base case, and then identify variables based on our model, so we can check all the many permutations, as we really have to exhaustively check everything to know anything for certain.

Daniel Hines21:05:48

Like maybe a macro-recorder for Gherkin syntax.

hiredman21:05:06

but why would you use the gherkin syntax?

Daniel Hines21:05:27

Our manual test suite is a big deal in our company, and it’s written in pseudo-Gherkin.

hiredman21:05:36

you are describing a process so far entirely about machines doing things, why would you record results in a not very expressive poorly defined language designed to be readable by non-technical people

Daniel Hines21:05:47

The reasons are mainly political, not technical. I think people would be very happy to see plain-english stuff they could read and understand.

hiredman21:05:34

just generate tla+ and send them a link to lamport's videos

💯 8

hiredman21:05:41

he wears great hats

Daniel Hines21:05:23

I try not to mention math or logic at work. People don’t always respond well 😕

Daniel Hines21:05:44

I love those videos though, they’re great.

gklijs22:05:27

I much rather use #etaoin then Cucumber, but for work it's not that bad. Most annoying thing about it is that it can be very slow in the ide. And often you have to do some trickery if you only want to test/develop a small part.

2019-05-21

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