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#off-topic
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2018-10-22
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emccue01:10:54

I kinda don't get the pitch for racket

emccue01:10:11

I used it for my intro CS course at college

emccue01:10:54

and that got me into clojure

emccue01:10:40

but racket itself doesn't seem all that compelling to me (though the define-syntax style macros seem pretty sweet)

dpsutton01:10:10

Scheme work modern tooling and mind share. Good formula

emccue01:10:56

@jayzawrotny maybe Elm would be a good starting language for your friend.

eccentric J01:10:12

Good idea but web dev can be its own beast as well but if they’re set on web dev that’s a great choice

emccue01:10:06

one of my college acquaintances got a web dev challenge from a prospective employer this weekend

emccue01:10:26

I got him from zero to competent enough to finish the challenge in about 3 hours

emccue01:10:50

so for someone with a CS backround already its pretty easy

eccentric J01:10:57

Did they have prior programming experience?

emccue01:10:14

¯\(ツ)

emccue01:10:15

A pro is that it doesn't require setup to do through ellie

emccue01:10:31

the types are (probably) good for beginners

emccue01:10:27

and if they have an issue then they can just click the share button to ask you questions

emccue01:10:59

also they can see and play with what they make

emccue01:10:07

con is that it is web dev focused

emccue01:10:30

and you drove them closer to haskell than lisp

emccue01:10:40

(the dork side of the force)

eccentric J02:10:11

I’m not sure types would be good for beginners who don’t come from a tech background personally but it may depend on the type of person the beginner is.

eccentric J02:10:00

Ellie seems really cool, http://nightcoders.net was also recommended to me as well as http://timothy-rattled.github.io/power-turtle/

danm09:10:20

How are you connecting to postfix? If it's with a mail app instead of just telnet or whatever it may be that the app is actually using the SMTP secure port (587)?

danm09:10:33

Gah, and now I'm replying to a deleted comment 😞

borkdude09:10:51

Sorry @carr0t. I discovered I had to add the rule to v6 as well 🙂

danm10:10:17

Yes, I've made that mistake before

danm10:10:33

I'm currently having issues trying to get ufw to play nice with Docker in a v6 environment...

john17:10:42

Lin Clark is killing it with these WASM status updates: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/10/webassemblys-post-mvp-future/

orestis19:10:04

I’m curious to learn for those that use Clojure professionally, how large are your teams, what % between junior/senior and how do you split up work into workable chunks?

orestis19:10:20

Some times it feels thats it’s hard to figure out how to split work for 3-4 people, especially on a new project. A lot of stepping on toes etc, no clear way to segment off chunks to be worked on independently.

ljosa19:10:19

Here at Yieldbot, we have about 15 people on the tech side now. About half of them use Clojure much. Almost all are senior.

ljosa19:10:06

Haven't had the problem with stepping on toes. Maybe you can describe the project(s) with which this is a challenge?

orestis19:10:20

Fairly straightforward web app I’d say. Not terribly complex domain but not too simple either. We are on a 1 month toy project with Clojure to see how it would work. It might be that we are still too much into groundwork rather than feature work, and groundwork/architecture is hard to split up.

orestis19:10:09

I suspect (I’m fairly new to the team) that there are some culture/process issues that are holding us back.

dpsutton19:10:55

pair programming into a shared vision can do wonders when the work is largely entertwined

orestis19:10:07

It feels frustrating because we all have quite a lot of experience (about 10-15 years each) but for some reason things are going very slow, knowledge sharing is low... or perhaps I just got used to working alone for some time now that the team overheads feel huge to me?

orestis19:10:40

There is already a sort of split between frontend and backend which feels absurd to me, but half the people have already expressed they don’t want to be full stack which is understandable, I guess?

orestis19:10:13

(This has nothing to do with Clojure at this point, these are all issues with our current Node codebase)

orestis19:10:20

A few of us took to Clojure and are trying to see if the nature of the language would make for a better way of working, but in hindsight it feels putting the cart before the horse.

orestis19:10:47

Anyway, sorry for ranting. If anyone has some insight or experience with this kind of thing, I’d appreciate a DM.

eggsyntax19:10:46

The team I just left started as 3 people, grew to about 9 over a couple of years on a very large project. All quite experienced folks until near the end. We didn't have much trouble with toe-stepping, even at the beginning of the project when we were still experimenting and exploring what directions we would take. Maybe the trouble is that it's too many people for a little toy project? Our project was pretty big & complex, so there were a lot of parts to split off. One thing that I think is helpful is to start with a moderately full-featured template like Luminus, and then the basic groundwork is in place from the very beginning. Those seem likely to be some of the toe-steppiest parts, since lack of basic infrastructure is often blocking for other folks. Luminus has enough knobs that you can generally get something that fits your preferences reasonably well (at least within the bounds of typical web project structure).

eggsyntax19:10:48

We also each independently created throwaway versions, only a few days' effort each, and then those served as bases for discussion until we reached consensus on one of those versions to converge on.

eggsyntax19:10:25

@U09QBCNBY @U09RT5MKJ feel free to correct my recollections there. Also hi! 😉

ljosa19:10:04

Hard to say anything useful without more specifics.

orestis19:10:13

Yeah, I know. It’s hard to be specific without going overboard.

orestis19:10:27

Thanks for the effort though, I appreciate even having a place to vent :)

🍺 12
slipset20:10:02

On a previous project I found that you probably need a smaller team when you use Clojure, ie a project that is suited for a team of five when working in Java, might only make sense for a team of say two, when using Clojure, just because the code base is smaller.