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#editors
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2015-06-11
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andrewvida14:06:02

Anyone using Atom editor (http://atom.io) for clojure development?

akiva14:06:38

I’ve not seen it discussed much in here.

andrewvida14:06:48

I’ve enjoyed using it when developing in Ruby. I haven’t been able to get my brain wrapped around Cursive yet, so maybe I’ll try to figure out a workflow with it.

akiva14:06:06

I say go with whatever’s most comfortable when learning a new language.

benedek14:06:10

i was asking the same question around here last week

benedek14:06:35

trying to figure out if i should have a look at atom to do a cider-nrepl/refactor-nrepl integration for it

benedek14:06:46

but i don’t think i got many answers...

benedek14:06:51

(well, none)

gjnoonan14:06:22

@andrewvida @benedek a colleague of mine does

gjnoonan14:06:51

I personally find it too limiting

benedek14:06:18

@andrewvida: you might want to check light table as it has really good clj support via https://github.com/rundis/clj-light-refactor

benedek14:06:31

i’ve never really tried tbh

benedek14:06:53

@andrewvida: if you don’t want to embrace the emacs way 😉

akiva14:06:08

Spacemacs4LYFE

andrewvida14:06:27

I’m a beginner, so I didn’t want to try to learn a emacs as well. I have heard good things about spacemacs though…

benedek14:06:15

spaceemacs is deffo an option. or you can use https://github.com/clojure-emacs/example-config

aaronm14:06:17

spacemacs is great if you know vi; not sure I’d recommend it to someone who didn’t already know vi or emacs, though 😉

benedek14:06:31

which gives you a vanilla emacs with all clj goodies (you still need to learn emacs ofc)

akiva14:06:49

But if you don’t know vi, though… [shakes head sadly]

gjnoonan14:06:01

@aaronm I actually would, given the sheer productivity and power you get by learning it

akiva14:06:21

@gjnoonan, but not if they’re also trying to learn a new language, that is.

aaronm14:06:26

@gjnoonan: I’d absolutely recommend learning emacs/spacemacs/vim+tpope’s stuff eventually

gjnoonan14:06:38

even if it is learning a step or command a week

aaronm14:06:53

but I’m leery of piling on “learn all this other stuff as you’re trying to get into the language"

benedek14:06:12

@aaronm: 👍 but light table is there if @andrewvida wants to focus on the lang first

aaronm14:06:37

light table is probably a good option if you’re used to the non-esoteric editors, yeah

gjnoonan14:06:45

everyone learns differently. I can learn multiple things concurrently. Guess I’m lucky

benedek14:06:13

or an 👽 😉

gjnoonan14:06:16

Or cursive if you have never used vim or emacs

aaronm14:06:11

I would absolutely recommend any programmer learn vim or emacs, as you can take them to pretty much any language you want to use

benedek14:06:47

and as clojure is a lisp and emacs is a lisp machine it is just a natural fit 😉

aaronm14:06:49

and as someone who likes using a bunch of different languages, I’d much rather stay in one editor than switching between specialized IDEs simple_smile

gjnoonan14:06:03

20year vim veteran and about 2 weeks with spac:emacs:

akiva14:06:23

Hah, @gjnoonan and I are pretty much the same there.

aghecht14:06:47

I was a 25 year vim veteran before switching to emacs

benedek14:06:54

poor @andrewvida escaped the emacs / vim believers 😉

aaronm14:06:06

I’m surprised at how quickly spacemacs is taking off

sveri14:06:33

Wow, a channel solely for editor wars, nice 😄

akiva14:06:34

I started with it a couple of months ago and at first it was pretty touch-and-go but now it’s solid and sleek.

benedek14:06:52

@sveri on the contrary for editor love 😄

aaronm14:06:18

no wars here, we all join hands and welcome each other, text editors are fun 😉

andrewvida14:06:52

yep! great discussion everyone!

aghecht14:06:10

Yeah, I respect people who use other editors. Hell, I still use IntelliJ for Java.

aaronm14:06:16

the problem with having used vim for over a decade now is that I can barely use any editor that doesn’t have decent vim emulation, though 😦

aaronm14:06:19

@aghecht: if I were writing Java, I’d probably use IntelliJ as well, to be honest.

gjnoonan14:06:38

@aghecht: Couldn’t use anything less for Java. I have VI emulation on top, but that is just because of muscle memory

aghecht14:06:32

I use Emacs emulation for the same reason.

sveri14:06:00

Uhm, eclipse anyone?

chris16:06:40

intellij is great for java

chris16:06:59

way less a pain than eclipse (for me anyways)

chris16:06:14

++spacemacs for clj though

chris16:06:34

still use vim for editing pom files and stuff though

akiva16:06:20

I’m with @chris. If I’m shelled in somewhere and I need to quickly edit files, I go for vim. But if I’m local and I’ve Spacemacs up, I practically live in there. Org mode and the like.

aaronm16:06:08

my experience with eclipse involved a lot of frustration and crashes; IntelliJ seemed better for me.

davs17:06:46

Hi! Ppl if you are using vim for clj editing how do you move between/inside s-exp-es? What plugins/tricks are there to easily edit clj code? inserting at the beginning/end of s-exp, moving inside/outside s-exp-es etc? Thanks.

gjnoonan17:06:21

@akiva i need to try and start to use org mode more, since it was one of the reasons that swayed me!

akiva17:06:02

One of my plans is to one day write a better Org mode client for iOS. That’s all that’s stopping me from dropping OmniFocus as my todo manager.

davs17:06:51

Thanks, I'm looking at vim-sexp and it looks promising. I've read that emacs is better for clojure editing. Why is that?

davs17:06:21

Neovim has already terminal integration, although the tools are maybe not very good yet

canweriotnow17:06:21

@davs emacs is a lisp interpreter, so it's very natural to extend it for Clojure. Also, CIDER provides a direct connection between the editor buffer and running code... Emacs has a learning curve but we'll worth it.

aaronm17:06:37

emacs is built on lisp, so it has a long history of strong lisp tooling. vim has come a long way toward catching up, though.

aaronm17:06:56

it can talk to nrepl using a package called fireplace, for example

canweriotnow18:06:28

It really just comes down to personal preference, except that if your personal preference happens not to be Emacs, it’s wrong.

sveri18:06:58

Ha ha, you mixed up cursive with emacs

arrdem18:06:25

Java IDEs considered acceptable emacsen

andrewhr18:06:21

emacsen without emacsy

gjnoonan18:06:54

I think we should all use Notepad/TextEdit/thelike to be fair 😜

arrdem18:06:07

given that we have tooling like cursive capable of relatively powerful automated refactorings I’d challenge you to defend that position 😛

akiva19:06:57

Punch. Cards.

akiva19:06:03

[drops mic, strolls away]

arrdem19:06:19

dis gon b gud

markstang19:06:32

COSMAC 1802 Elf, Hex Keyboard, 256 Bytes of RAM

aaronm19:06:23

@akiva: my father’s a programmer, I used to get “back in my day” stories about punch cards 😉

markstang19:06:07

Learned pascal on punch cards, try indenting a procedure...

akiva19:06:35

Hah, yeah, I’ve never had to do it. I got my start in BASIC and 6502 assembly language.

gjnoonan19:06:30

6502 was a nice chip

markstang19:06:45

Apple IIe plug z80?

akiva19:06:13

Commodore 64.

akiva19:06:20

Although I had one of those too.

gjnoonan19:06:17

c64 is my al time favourite computer. Well tied with an Amiga 500

gjnoonan19:06:17

man those were the days

akiva19:06:44

Heck yeah. Built a career out of it.

markstang19:06:43

BeOS->https://www.haiku-os.org/

akiva19:06:29

[drops mic again]

akiva19:06:53

I do not miss the day when OSs came on 50 floppy disks.

gjnoonan19:06:32

I always found it herapeutic changing the disks, and it was a great sense of accomplishment

markstang19:06:50

OS/2 with Presentation Manager @ Microsoft University, just sayin - oh the irony

akiva19:06:20

@gjnoonan: Probably in the same way it felt almost Zen-like watching a defrag.

aghecht19:06:50

@aaronm: 20 years ago I worked with someone who used ed. The scary/strange part was that he was as fast with ed as most people were with vi.

aaronm19:06:49

well, vi was originally just a screen interface for ex, which was a fork of ed; I suppose if you’re really used to it...

gjnoonan20:06:00

using spacemacs I am trying to make

(global-set-key (kbd "M-3") '(lambda () (interactive) (insert "#")))
work but to no avail, have put it in my config layer, and also eval’d it in the scratch

chris20:06:38

I dunno, this works fine if you bind it to another key (^3 works fine), but it doesn’t want to let me rebind meta

aaronm20:06:14

it’s being overridden by window-numbering-mode, but I don’t know enough about emacs yet to diagnose how to fix that

chris20:06:29

disabling window-numbering-mode fixes it

aaronm20:06:09

or, figured this out: if you want to keep window-numbering-mode working except for that one key,

(define-key window-numbering-keymap (kbd "M-3") '(lambda () (interactive) (insert "#")))

aaronm20:06:52

but it adds the key definition to the mode’s keymap instead of trying to bind it globally

arrdem20:06:18

aaronm: you need to tripple tick multi line pastes.

aaronm20:06:30

didn’t think there was a newline in it 😉

arrdem20:06:32

aaronm: single ticks only work for pastes without newline

arrdem20:06:46

if you up arrow promptly you can edit for ~3min

aaronm20:06:54

oh cool, thanks. new at slack.

arrdem20:06:55

but only your last message [ this is edit text ]

dmich20:06:27

@arrdem: Eh? If you hover to upper right of your messages, you'll see gear. click it and you can choose edit. Don't think there is any time limit.

dmich20:06:47

Can also delete messages

aaronm20:06:53

apparently so

arrdem20:06:12

oh neat I didn’t see that… but there is definitely a lockout time at least in the other slacks I’m on

aaronm20:06:44

it can be set at the team level, apparently

gjnoonan20:06:28

Thanks guys, will just disable the mode as I never use it