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#clojure-uk
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2020-11-30
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thomas07:11:22

mogge and welcome @safe.hammad

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jiriknesl08:11:48

Good morning

jiriknesl08:11:03

For Christmas decorations - here in Oxford, so far, I have seen only one house decorated to the “US standards”. The same was with Halloween. I miss it, my kids love these decorations.

dharrigan08:11:20

Good Morning! We put the christmas tree up on Saturday. My kid was bouncing off the walls with glee.

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dharrigan08:11:30

He's a good kid 🙂

maleghast08:11:24

Good Morning everyone... - Long time no "see" (been busy).

maleghast08:11:51

Sounds like fun @dharrigan 🙂

dharrigan08:11:44

It was. Christmas is for kids, so seeing him enjoy the "prep" is amusing and nice for me to see

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Safe Hammad09:11:03

Morning! And thanks for the welcome 🙂 Huge excitement in our household decorating the tree over the weekend.

yogidevbear09:11:06

Definitely magic for young kids

danm10:11:18

Morning morning!

danm10:11:54

How long until children become surly teenagers who want to lie in? 😉 My son is 14 months and he woke us up screaming at 02:45. I feel half dead, and also sorry for our neighbours...

dharrigan11:11:16

We started at about 6-7 months to sleep train our baby. It works wonders

dharrigan11:11:24

He now regularly sleeps 10-12 hours a night

dharrigan11:11:00

having a decent sleep for the parents is the best birthday/christmas/major festival present anyone could get (who has children!)

Conor11:11:13

Sleep training your child is one of those 'for your own good' scenarios

dharrigan11:11:35

absolutely 🙂

Conor11:11:46

You feel dreadful leaving them to cry, but the alternative is you end up with what my parents had to go through; apparently I didn't sleep all night until I was 4

dharrigan11:11:45

We did the - let him cry for about one minute, go in and tap tap, reassure in soft voice, let him fall alseep, then extend the crying a little bit each week (when it happened). By month two-three, he was sleeping all night.

dharrigan11:11:17

Of course, some nights, he wouldn't stop, but those decreased in frequency very rapidly after the start

Conor11:11:00

I believe you can also buy child-sized cartoon mallets if all else fails

dharrigan11:11:12

is that for the parents to hit themselves over the head?

dharrigan11:11:26

The first to unconsciousness gets a pass?

Conor11:11:34

Yes, you have just enough time to say, "Night night" before you fall over, by law

dharrigan11:11:41

Actually, my wife is a veyv very very very deep sleeper

dharrigan11:11:49

Guess who did most of the sleep training

dharrigan11:11:27

At night, my kid sneezes, I'm like ZINGGG, I'm awake. The SO, is blissfully snoring her cute little face off beside me.

danm11:11:58

Well we tried it for a couple of weeks already and it just doesn't seem to work 😕 Maybe we're doing it wrong. He'll go down fine, often even without us being in the room, but at some point in the night he wakes and starts screaming seemingly because we're not there. If someone just goes into the room he'll settle himself down, but if they don't thus far the longest we've left it was just over an hour of constant crying. Laura's taken to bringing him into our bed even though we know that's bad just because with both of us back at work neither of us can cope with a night of how little sleep it would take otherwise. We need to be able to book a few weeks holiday to try and sort it, so maybe over Christmas.

danm11:11:33

At the moment it might be teething-related too. Laura is loath to drug him too quickly in case he doesn't need it, but Calpol is basically the first thing I do, and sometimes he settles right down after that.

dharrigan11:11:30

I know I'm the first to say, never take advice from some stranger from t'interwebs

dharrigan11:11:08

but bringing the kid to the bed is the worst mistake

dharrigan11:11:23

We never ever did that with our kid, ne doesn't expect it, nor demand it

dharrigan11:11:34

he has his space, his bed, his own world.

dharrigan11:11:16

I know a lot of collegues at work who started the habit of bringing their kid to their bed - now, even after years, the kid still demands it

dharrigan11:11:41

I think it's important to keep the boundaries, to learn what is mummy and daddy''s and what is theirs.

dharrigan11:11:02

but, shrug, don't lisent to a word I said 🙂 Every parenthood is unique 🙂

dharrigan11:11:40

oh, and yes, calpol.

dharrigan11:11:05

another thing we never used for our kid, after about 6 months is a dummy.

dharrigan11:11:20

I can't understand it when I see children of 3-4 even older in their pram sucking on a dummy

danm11:11:27

Oh he's never had a dummy

dharrigan11:11:37

He has his thumb, always there, always handy 🙂

dharrigan11:11:52

he used it alot. Then, suddently, about 6 months ago, he just stopped

dharrigan11:11:00

he no longer sucks his thumb at all

danm11:11:12

Mostly he chews his entire fist, or at least 3 fingers at a time, rather than thumb sucking

dharrigan11:11:53

a little calpol now and again for teething pain, works wonders

rickmoynihan14:11:03

I definitely agree about the value of sleep training. We’ve essentially done that from the start, not so much the controlled crying thing in the early days, but maintaining and slowly evolving a bedtime routine etc. My daughter’s 17 months and sleeps well now; though we’re always having to slightly adjust the routine as things change. We’ve never hesitated with giving her some calpol, if there’s even a hint of teething or pain near bedtime we’ll give her a dose, to save the stress for all of us. We’ve never let her in our bed either (and she doesn’t need or want for it). I think when it comes to sleep the only advice I have that has worked well for us, is don’t chop and change between things too quickly. For example if they stir in the middle of the night crying, give them a minute or two to resettle themselves as your interventions can be more disruptive. Similarly if they’re in distress it can take them a while to settle regardless of the intervention (cuddling, nappy change, calpol etc), so try and minimise the disruption of the interventions, e.g. if there’s a dirty a nappy but you suspect teething too do them both quickly to get it over with. Then stick with your chosen intervention and give it a little longer than you might think necessary to work, before trying something else. These things are processes and to some extent you need to let them run their course, it doesn’t mean you’re not doing the right thing. I’d also agree with @dharrigan about advice from other parents… take it with a pinch of salt, there aren’t any right answers and every child and family is different. Children need to adapt to your way of living as much as you need to adapt to theirs. You just need to empathise with their situation and try and see things from their perspective to understand what’s going on, but don’t be afraid of trying to find that compromise where you can all be happy.

rickmoynihan14:11:01

Oh one thing I will say, was at about 14 months our daughter sleep regressed a bit… it’s quite common. Something to do with learning to walk/talk etc… Anyway we found during that period that she’d wake at 3am screaming… and the usual effective interventions had all stopped working. It turned out that she was desperate to play. Once we realised if she wasn’t settling we’d just let her run around and play with her toys for an hour in her dimly lit room, before picking her up and trying to put her down again. Playing with toys for an hour at 3/4am isn’t the intervention I wanted, but it was what she required and ultimately letting her do it was the quickest way at that time to get her back down without tears. It was also a phase that appeared to end after about a week.

danm14:11:13

That's possibly what we've got at the moment. He's 14 months, has just started to walk (literally took his first steps yesterday)...

dharrigan14:11:16

w00t! a big step, if you pardon the pun! 🙂

rickmoynihan14:11:34

Yeah, if it happens again just try putting him down on his feet… if he screams it might not be that, but if he stops you’ll know :man-shrugging:

dharrigan14:11:01

a few months ago, my kid started waking up at about 4am, saying "daddy daddy". I would go into his bed room and he would say "I want to sleep together (meaning he wants me to sleep on the floor beside him". I put up with it for a bit (thinking it was a phase). He didn't stop. So a week or so ago, both myself and mummy told him before going to bed each night, that if he wakes, up, to not call out, to try and sleep again. He tried a few times, but I would go in and say "Mummy and Daddy are sleeping. It's sleep time, not playtime - try to close your eyes and sleep again". I would then go back to bed. After a few tears, he did, now he's back to regular sleeping again.

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seancorfield16:11:47

My mum used to put whisky in my milk bottle 🙂 Times have changed...

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danm09:12:55

Laura's Gran used to dip her dummy in vodka 😉

danm09:12:29

I am hoping last night was not just a happy accident. We swapped round, so I did bath/bedtime and Laura walked the dog instead of vice versa. Straight down and slept right through instead of crying every time Laura left the room and waking crying (that she's not there?) in the night. Going to try sticking this way round for the rest of the week at least.

dharrigan09:12:56

That's a result! More data points required 🙂

rickmoynihan09:12:55

:thumbsup: nice one… hope that’s it 🤞 We recently made some similar adjustments, because my daughter got excessively clingy to my wife after we we’d been isolating with covid… which meant that she was crying when my wife would pass her to me to put down to bed. We didn’t swap roles though, just adjusted how we do the transition.

thomas10:11:03

The main problem I have with Black Friday is that it seems to last for at least a whole WEEK!!!! What are these people thinking?

mamapitufo10:11:01

and for a while (maybe it's still a thing?) there was a "Cyber Monday", which was supposed to be the online equivalent to the Black Friday, no?

thomas11:11:13

yes, I think there was... not sure what happened to that.... I guess with COVID everything is online now

danm11:11:53

Well I've just seen a load of Dell ads for 'Cyber Monday savings' in the UK, so I assume at least some companies are still doing it

thomas11:11:09

ok, I hadn't seen any (yet).

Conor11:11:31

I'm just amused by it being dubbed 'Black Friday Week, 20th - 30th November'

Conor11:11:46

A) That is not how long a week is, B) there's no such thing as 'Black Friday Week'

alexlynham11:11:06

au contraire conor

alexlynham11:11:21

c a p i t a l i s m

Conor11:11:25

As we get closer to the yawning vortex deep at the heart of modern life, even time itself is being stretched out like spaghetti

thomas11:11:02

Next year we'll have black Friday month!

thomas11:11:12

because... why limit it?

mamapitufo11:11:22

(and it will last 7.5 weeks)

dharrigan11:11:39

Anyone watch rick and morty?

djm11:11:47

They tried 10 days weeks during the French Revolution, apparently

djm11:11:14

(I guess 20th-30th is 11 days, but near enough)

danm11:11:29

@dharrigan Yes, but now I'm wondering how that is going to tie into Black Friday and capitalism 😉

dharrigan11:11:57

The ending of "Never Ricking Morty"...

cddr11:11:19

Dunno what you're all complaining about. All these black friday deals need e-commerce systems you can easily scale up on demand (i.e. they keep the likes of us in work). 🤑

danm11:11:26

I don't recognise that one...

danm11:11:55

Aah. S04E06. For some reason Netflix UK only has up to S04E05, so I've not seen beyond that

dharrigan11:11:56

do the last one first

dharrigan11:11:44

"You looked into the bleeding jaws of capitalism and said "Yes daddy, more..""

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bruno.bonacci13:11:44

Good Morning. The London Clojurians group has just passed the 2000 members

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bruno.bonacci13:11:14

Just a quick reminder about tomorrow's event with @borkdude about babashka https://www.meetup.com/London-Clojurians/events/274014078/

peterwestmacott17:11:30

It's kind of UK-related so I'll just mention in passing #jobs...

peterwestmacott17:11:46

Also, I've been working on some code recently in an attempt to run a remote "white elephant gift exchange" for the office. https://github.com/peterwestmacott/remotewhiteelephant

peterwestmacott17:11:24

it's super Work-in-progress right now, but I figured someone else might find it valuable in these socially distant times