morning

quiet today

I assume because everybody else is at clojurex 😂

there is always the #clojurex channel too. 😉

and morning

It is morning time

@conor.p.farrell no points for the obvious

#clojurex is a weird experience....I know 70% of the faces in this room. Although I only know 30% of the names so if you're here and I have to read your badge, forgive me... I'm old... and used to write COBOL

The sky is grey, life still has no inherent meaning

I was gonna say that somebody has gotten out of bed on the wrong side

and then looked outside and remembered: Manchester in winter

Eating banana loaf my wife made though

morning

...aaaand the first PHP jokes drop

oh is it clojurextoday?

Yeah

nice

clojure season is here!

I don’t know, I nearly broke my teeth just now

have fun !

maybe try not doing that

yikes!

hard mince pies?

No, I make a living with PHP

It pisses me off when people assume I write shit code and am inept because of the language

ah I've not heard the expression "broke my teeth"

You know, when you grit them

yeah that sucks 😞

Not every company has the money to invest in tools that don’t have universal adoption, and it’s especially pronounced regionally

Recently someone from functional community wrote on Twitter that they’d like to hear some talks about what problems small companies have and how they solve them.

Well, that’s how they do it. But I can’t imagine anybody giving a talk about it because that’s not something you can brag about to other programmers. (I could definitely see a talk directed to non tech entrepreneurs: how to solve X,000,000 problems with X,000 budget)

On a more cheerful note, though, I brought cake :)

alienating people carries such a high cost

Missing cake? Definitely high cost :D

@lady3janepl I hear you, I’m also annoyed by these jokes

Hmm... People should only make jokes about the languages they have to suffer through personally. (I feel grumbling is ok but sneering isn't)

I've never had to write PHP. Is it worse than, say, Perl?

I've had to write a fair amount of Perl over the years.

php 4 was horrific, nowadays it's not too bad of a language

comparable to python IMO

Surely the complaints should be directed at the language, rather than the people who use it? If it's popular, there's generally a reason

The reason it’s popular is that it used to be very cheap to run and scale horizontally, and also very well documented and easy to learn.

The things people hate on are generally different from the things that were actually problematic

For example, people hate on Wordpress and inconsistency in function naming and argument order

What was actually a problem was memory leaks due to garbage collection using reference counting and not collecting circular references well.

But: 1) it wasn’t that much of a problem since the whole environment was (and is) torn down after every request; unless you used things like ORMs and you know what I think about ORMs 2) they’ve fixed it years ago.

Also, (inc PHP-bomb-counter)

Also, argh, I took over a Clojure channel with an other-languages rant, sorry XD

We're not supposed to be on topic

When you mention Clojure I think you're off topic

Also, I do think complaints mix up language and people... but the essence is that it’s too easy to use PHP and therefore much of the code out there is hacked together by people who don’t know or care about security, extensibility, or aesthetics. It’s become a shibboleth for people who don’t know any better, because people who don’t know any better are able to use it, and thus inhabit it at a larger rate than other languages. It’s not elite enough. (Cue conversation about gatekeeping, elitism, keeping out minorities who can’t afford spending years in academia or specialised self study etc)

PHP sounds like a good kind of thing to discuss on this channel

🙂

I do have to admit that I'm very happy to not be doing any salesforce (apex or otherwise) code any more.

I do worry that I'll end up having to do a lot of integration with salesforce one day (and that I'll regret not having kept up)

Anyone know how to get a REPL connected to emacs with the new clj tools

ah I've got it

care to share? 🙂

oh my bad it doesn't work 😂 but I will when it does !

I think I found the instructions though

https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider-nrepl#via-clj

took a decent amount of googling 😂 as far as I know socket repl/prepl aren't supported yet by cider, so need to start nrepl with the correct middleware and - hopefully - emacs will pick it up

I think I need to update my spacemacs config though...

time for a cup of tea (!)

I'm regretting this already

I'll just have a go at advent of code while my code is compiling I thought

I'll try using the new clj tools I thought

That would be fun I thought

last time I had that though I ended up reinstalling my os

I think you're on the right trajectory

😂

😭

ah @alex.lynham think I've got it working

used this as my deps.edn

https://gist.github.com/danielneal/553d3dad3072812ed2d832d764d186e1

😄

Then clj -A:nrepl

and cider-connect worked & found the connection

why is that require quoted?

it's a typo

unacceptable

I mean

it's a mistake

it works now

it worked before but I don't know why

😂

maybe the require not necessary

I suppose cider auto-requires its backend stuff

ah dammit deleted the wrong line

god damit daniel

I'm a state

we don't pay you to make those mistakes

"For version control, we use slack"

For those that missed it, the cider talk today was brilliant "Brewing CIDER: It Starts with an Orchard". It's the only video that hasn't made it onto the skillsmatter website yet

Also enjoyed https://skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/12780-speed-bumps-ahead

@yogidevbear how did you find the orchard talk? I'm curious, as a contributor

It was really good and extremely funny

@yogidevbear what was the general theme?

There was a lot of focus around nREPL and around cider being Clojure cider instead of Emacs cider

Definitely worth a watch when they get the video up

Here’s an overview/IMO: Solid/must-see: - performance (speed bumps ahead) Funny: - Jason’s - CIDER “Hmm, I wanna hear more”: - Peter’s (text adventure) - Jason’s (auto-updating AI) - ontology (but that’s because I’m interested in them) “I wanna play with this!” - Making music Controversial: - OOP in FP (at least for me) - CIDER Beginner-friendly/useful: - Running without an API - Writing Java in Clojure (how to structure Clojure better) …and the other stuff I either missed (sorry!), or have seen already

@lady3janepl why is oop in fp controversial?

the performance one was good for me too

> OOP in FP I’m right there with you. Just winced a little

vids up already? Great!

I think so, they posted links. I’m impressed.

yeah they are… just signed in and watching the perf one 🙂

@lady3janepl CIDER talk was both funny and controversial? I'm curious about that...