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#clojure-uk
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2018-11-05
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manas_marthi07:11:19

Hello all, good morning

manas_marthi07:11:12

Looking for some advise..

guy07:11:46

👋 Good morning

manas_marthi07:11:51

To set up development laptop which Linux would you recommend ubuntu /Mint linux / Arch Linux? Or any other

guy07:11:23

I found ubuntu and Mint very easy to set up, I have heard that Arch Linux is a bit harder.

guy07:11:49

Mint was as easy and getting a usb putting it on, then plugging it in

dominicm08:11:05

https://manjaro.org Arch Linux without the pain of install.

👍 8
dominicm08:11:34

Benefits of Arch over Ubuntu are that your packages are always up to date, and the documentation is fantastic.

4
thomas09:11:28

@dominicm why is Arch more up to date compared to Ubuntu? (I remember there being updates on an almost daily basis on Ubuntu)

dominicm09:11:52

@thomas ubuntu only backports security updates. Arch is rolling release, it always matches the upstream version.

Rachel Westmacott09:11:18

In practice, how often does that break things?

dominicm10:11:17

Which bit?

dominicm10:11:56

Not very often. Software is stable 🙂

👍 4
dominicm10:11:11

If upstream is punishing me, I'd stop using upstream.

otfrom09:11:43

morning from a sunny, noisy London

alexlynham10:11:23

sigh just been totally f-d over by terraform and now having to redo everything as bash scripts in jenkins picard-facepalm

alexlynham10:11:31

well not so much terraform as - I need to create one set of services per client and b/c modular terraform is so verbose, platform have said we can't have one module per tenant with just the identifier differing between them basically

dominicm10:11:36

You think Clojure's error messages are bad? Try AWS!

dominicm10:11:47

I wish aws would just fail with a message "Failed to start". No. You failed to to decrypt the EBS volume. Just say that.

alexlynham10:11:51

"terraform is for infrastructure, you're using it for orchestration"

alexlynham10:11:03

why yes I am, because terraform knows the ARNs and I don't

dominicm10:11:39

@alex.lynham I don't understand the distinction. Can you explain it to me?

alexlynham10:11:26

gosh you and me both

alexlynham10:11:03

less facetiously - create infra with terraform, then use e.g. jenkins or puppet to actually config the services

alexlynham10:11:31

whereas I'm like, if one tool can do most of the heavy lifting, use that & get jenkins to do the bare minimum, e.g. 12-factor env vars

dominicm10:11:31

blugh. Terraform has provisioning built in!

dominicm10:11:02

Having said that, we use user-data to do all our configuration on startup.

alexlynham10:11:46

like, I pride myself in being quite cautious and pragmatic, and I think I got shafted here in spite of that

jasonbell10:11:07

https://dataissexy.wordpress.com/2018/11/05/too-small-to-kafka-but-too-big-to-wait-really-simple-streaming-in-clojure-queues-pubsub-activemq-rabbitmq/ For those who were asking about Fractal’s Durable Queue, I rattled this together, please forgive the rush of it all.

alexlynham10:11:55

nice post 🙂

alexlynham10:11:14

bookmarked for lunchtime reading 😄

jasonbell10:11:41

I wouldn’t get your hopes up too much 🙂

alexlynham11:11:46

hold on, I can solve my problem like a functional programmer

alexlynham11:11:48

their problem is "we'll have loads of copies of the module config", so why don't I just make a higher order module that lays out the configuration for a set of the original module and exposes that as a module... then all they will see is a single module... trollface

manas_marthi11:11:02

@dominicm @guy Are there any differentiating factors on why Mint/Manjaro are better for development?

guy11:11:36

Yeah for me, i’m quite a lazy person, it was just, download mint and install. No other extra thoughts. I think Arch is probably better if you want to delve into the linux world. I’m just a linux noob so found it a great place to start.

manas_marthi11:11:00

One of my colleagues installed Mint Linux on his college going kid's laptop, who is not into IT.

manas_marthi11:11:07

The feedback was good to use

manas_marthi11:11:16

but they were using it largely for email, and document editing.

dominicm11:11:14

@manas.marthi I find Arch has way more packages than anything else. Largely because of the AUR.

4
dominicm11:11:46

I also find newer versions of software work more often.

4
dominicm11:11:10

It's also quite nice that whenever I'm running software, I can use the newest features, especially when they're bugfixes.

practicalli-john13:11:29

I've used Debian and Ubuntu as my development and deployment platform for most of the last 22 years. I was lucky enough to learn lots of things about how Linux worked from Slackware (drivers, rolling my own kernels, make files, building packages, etc). Arch looks like it makes Linux easier to learn that Slackware did back in 1994 and Arch has very extensive documentation. The last five years I've used Ubuntu as its lightweight (268Mb without desktop), has all the packages I needt, incredibly stable and most importantly is 100% keyboard driven desktop (I find GUI menus so cumbersome). I run Emacs (Spacemacs) as my development environment and everything is installed and updated via the package manager. I added PPAs for a couple of things where I 'needed' the latest version (Emacs-snapshot, Chrome beta). I spend less than an hour per year on customising / configuring Ubuntu, so I have more time to work on Clojure and discover new features in Spacemacs 🙂

manas_marthi15:11:22

hi what are PPAs?

practicalli-john16:11:29

Sorry, PPA is Personal Package Archives. These are used to get newer versions of software outside the Ubuntu 6 month release cycle. For example, I use the Ubuntu Emacs PPA to get access to daily snapshots of Emacs so I can test new versions of Emacs with Spacemacs. I can install something from a PPA just like any other Ubuntu software, I simply add the PPA package repository (details on each PPA) and do sudo apt install emacs-snapshot when I want to try a new version.

manas_marthi17:11:07

Got it.. thank you

dominicm13:11:10

> I spend less than an hour per year on customising / configuring Ubuntu, Other than where I opt into this (e.g. fiddling with Window managers), my experience aligns with this on Arch too. Especially with Manjaro.

dominicm13:11:38

http://reddit.com/r/unixporn/ sharing a bad habit of mine 😄 View the top posts, they're amazing.

😍 4
yogidevbear13:11:06

Anyone have a recommendation for a monitor? Something not too expensive (maybe around £150 - £300). Preferably with USB-C connector and works well with a Dell XPS 13

yogidevbear13:11:23

P.S. Morning 🙂

👋 4
dominicm13:11:42

Samsung U28E590D

yogidevbear13:11:19

Isn't this the one with the high mount points on the back?

dominicm13:11:56

But very good value for 4k

yogidevbear13:11:59

I was wondering about something like https://www.ebuyer.com/756117-acer-rt280k-28-4k-ultra-hd-led-monitor-um-pr0ee-001 (Realise it might not be USB-C)

Rachel Westmacott13:11:26

I found 28 inches for 4k a bit of a stretch - if you use it at full res the text will be small

Rachel Westmacott13:11:35

your eyes may be better than mine though

yogidevbear13:11:18

That's a negative 😂 I had to adjust my resolution on the xps so that I could make out the font

yogidevbear13:11:48

To be honest, I'm not planning on gaming or similar so 4k isn't essential for me

Rachel Westmacott13:11:18

personally I think moar pixels is FAR more important for work than for gaming or TV

Rachel Westmacott13:11:36

for gaming I do care about frame rate though

yogidevbear13:11:09

This will be more for reading code and maybe for watching Netflix at night

dominicm13:11:09

The proper way to solve this is to keep the resolution the same and to set your dpi in X to the correct value. Then everything does the right thing with font size.

yogidevbear13:11:19

You have young eyes though Dominic 😉 (waves old man angry fist: "Get off my lawn")

dominicm13:11:08

I really don't 😄

yogidevbear13:11:09

@dominicm what do you think of the Acer ☝️

dominicm13:11:11

My eyes are quite bad

❤️ 4
dominicm13:11:04

I mean, they're quite bad considering I don't wear glasses. But I am prescribed them.

dominicm13:11:12

I can still drive legally without. So.

dominicm13:11:52

RE the Acer, I don't know much about screens. I do have a monitor at home with speakers in, and any time a phone is receiving a text/phone call it makes a horrible noise. So I've been put off them 🙂 No idea if they all suffer from that.

rickmoynihan13:11:16

Regarding choosing a distro, if people are asking for a recommendation it’s usually because they’ve not tried Linux before - therefore I’d almost always send them to Ubuntu. It’s basically the biggest and most likely to work out of the box with the fewest issues; and they’ll probably get the better support online and via google. Once they’ve tried Ubuntu, they might be willing to look at others… In that case pick your poison. Probably Arch, though I here good things about Manjaro.

rickmoynihan13:11:23

I started out on slackware back in the mid 90's, then freebsd, then Redhat, then Debian, Ubuntu, then ran gentoo for many years, arch for maybe a year… now I’m on mac because of the hardware, and a lack time for noodling with distros; though I miss the windowing environments a lot. Especially XMonad. I’ve been out of the linux desktop/laptop world for 3 or 4 years though

otfrom13:11:39

I started on redhat 5.2

otfrom13:11:20

I've been on ubuntu and xps 13s for Mastodon for the last 4 years and they've been great (bar one revision that was a bit duff but @acron still made it work)

otfrom13:11:34

other than that they've been almost a bit boring in how well it works

otfrom13:11:39

not that I miss the old days.

otfrom13:11:57

and I have to admit that is why I'm still not onto something like arch and other window managers

acron14:11:42

I tried Arch and went back to Ubuntu

manas_marthi14:11:51

@rickmoynihan I started using Redhat around 15 years ago in a startup. There were no linux desktops in other companies. I mostly boot into the server vm without GUI on my windows desktop. I have a ubuntu desktop on virtual box on my home laptop. But I don't use it much. I am thinking of using full linux desktop for my work..

manas_marthi14:11:40

So I was checking if any of the distros are dev oriented than beginner/non IT oriented..

acron14:11:37

i3 or nothin' tho

rickmoynihan14:11:54

Ubuntu is probably your safe option. It’s not really beginner oriented, it’s just most likely to work out of the box with the least fiddling. I can’t really speak for Arch etc though… it’ll probably work fine too… In my experience Ubuntu tends to make some assumptions about what you want, and won’t really give you lots of explicit choices upfront. Other distro’s e.g. Arch tend to assume you know exactly what you want already. Hence they can be a little leaner.

rickmoynihan14:11:56

but probably best for an arch user to chip in here… as I’ve not used it for a long time 🙂

yogidevbear15:11:17

I came from a Windows background and had to pick up Arch on the job. I've fiddled around a little with Linux in the past, but not had it as my primary working environment before this job. I had to make a lot of notes along the way and I had to retry the initial setup a couple times before I got it quite right. It's very stable though now that I'm up and running. I still have a lot to learn, but I can do my day job 🙂 Personally, I think Ubuntu desktop obviously looks more polished "out-of-the-box", but there are a lot of options for GUIs that you could probably use over a base Arch distro. As far as rolling releases, I'll leave those opinions to people with more experience than me to talk about 👍

danm16:11:25

Soooo tiiiired

guy16:11:36

days almost over 😄

Conor16:11:09

Quick Dan, the ingester's backed up again! All hands to the pumps!

alexlynham17:11:21

okay, so I've lost a day but got agreement to get the system out with some caveats

alexlynham17:11:33

the people side of this job is so tiring

alexlynham17:11:46

well, most jobs actually I guess

guy17:11:04

People are difficult 😄

guy17:11:18

“Please make it more pop!“ bananadance

seancorfield17:11:50

Remind me, who here actually runs the Clojure eXchange Conference?

jasonbell18:11:12

As in here on the channel?

jasonbell18:11:34

@jr0cket but I don’t want to discount the others who help out.

yogidevbear22:11:55

@jasonbell nice blog post 🙂

🙏 4
jasonbell07:11:37

Thank you kindly.