clojure-europe 2022-05-19

In 2019 we went to Engelberg, which was one of the most beautiful sights I've ever been to probably, if you go with the funicular up to several directions

borkdude08:05:16

This year we want to go to the Germany/Austria border near the Zugspitze and Garmisch-Partenkirchen, but still trying to find a nice apartment

slipset07:05:37

Post morning ride in my new CircleCI socks. Thanks @borkdude :)

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pez07:05:39

Waiting for mine! Also thanks to @borkdude 😃

thomas07:05:26

morning

val_waeselynck07:05:46

Morning!

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simongray07:05:08

Morning

otfrom07:05:09

morning https://photos.app.goo.gl/ur8Yc5woZ7ht6XYJ6

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pez08:05:31

Good morning!

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javahippie08:05:04

Probably a little OT, but what’s your view on trademarks in software code? If you create an OSS library and a trademarked company or productname is in the namespace or elsewhere, you’d “force” anybody who forks it to change the namespace and prevent anybody from creating a drop-in replacement, wouldn’t you?

javahippie08:05:37

The “javax vs jakartaee” fight between Oracle and Eclipse comes to mind

ray08:05:10

Do you mean when companies open source things with http://com.acme.my-ns rather than http://project.my-ns?

javahippie08:05:10

Yes, but project could also be trademarked. In that case you could fork the project in good faith that nothing will happen, but you always have the chance of being sued lingering over your head. We are evaluating to fork an abandoned Java library by a company, but it has the trademarked company name all over the package names and we’d need to change that. That led me to the question, if it would be a good idea to take care, that we as a company don’t make the same mistake, as it is somehow restricting

ray08:05:17

Ok. Avoiding trademark is for the best IMHO unless the license explicitly permits forks

javahippie08:05:28

Allowing the fork as is in the trademark is a good idea, have to check the standard licenses on that. If you avoid trademarks, it could collide with the “reverse domain” spec of Nexus central and Clojars, at least for the group id

plexus10:05:18

Trademarks can be a tool for open source organizations to retain rights over a brand. Anyone can fork Firefox but only Mozilla can call it Firefox, which can also help protect users, since they trust these brands. Clojure does this too, or used to, I think they've gotten less strict about it. Pretty sure if I had called Lambda Island "ClojureCast" that I had gotten an email from Alex asking me to change the name. They also discourage creating logos that are an obvious derivation of the Clojure logo. They legally have an obligation to demonstrate that they are protecting their trademark, otherwise they can lose it. So, it can serve a purpose and/or can be a hindrance, it's a good thing to be conscious of when making choices for your own projects.

javahippie12:05:09

That’s a good point. I guess we could define for ourselves, that libraries which we open-source should not have any trademarks in them, to make it easier for somebody to take over or fork later on. Everything that is more an application or could be customer-facing also would benefit from the trademark :thinking_face:

ray08:05:39

Good morning

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dharrigan12:05:49

This is brilliant

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pez13:05:24

I've been laughing for ten minutes straight here! Tummy hurts.

vijaykiran07:05:50

I’m about to go on vacation, what a perfect timing

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