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#clojure-europe
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2020-08-26
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ouvasam06:08:26

Good morning !

raymcdermott10:08:02

I used add-watch in my tests for the first time yesterday cos we use an atom for some mutations and I need to check those mutations. It's all working out so far but haven't pushed it hard. Anyone else use that or have better options?

Ben Hammond10:08:41

> I need to check those mutations you know you can pass a :validator-fn into the atom when you contruct it; in case that's what you are needing https://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/atom

raymcdermott10:08:46

yes, that's a good point. In this case I want to probe for correctness when there are certain transitions in an FSM so not quite the same use case but thanks for the tip

slipset10:08:57

A thing that has dawned upon me during these Corona days of working from home. I don't really miss the office/interacting with my colleagues all that much (which I guess means that I'm still interacting with them, but in a different medium), but I surely miss conferences. I miss the thrill of writing abstracts and waiting to see if they get accepted, and I most certainly miss meeting Clojurians IRL. I think for me, virtual conferences will never replace IRL conferences.

otfrom10:08:44

I don't really exist, so you'd only ever meet me virtually even if you saw my meat based avatar

plexus10:08:01

I can definitely second that. It feels very strange to go a whole year without conferences... I'm glad I got to meet a lot of people IRL that I can now keep in touch with, but it's really hard to get that initial connection just from interacting with people online. Or maybe it's something we need to learn and I should be inviting more people for casual chats. Also judging by the lack of response we got to CEST and my own anecdotal experience I think everyone is tired from too many zoom calls. Not too appealing to do another one to socialize.

plexus10:08:41

maybe it's time for some IRL corona-proof formats, assuming things are relatively stable in your area. Some combination of small groups, outdoors, masks, distancing.

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slipset10:08:24

I socialize quite well 1-1 on zoom, but it's hard to "mingle" (not that I'm very good at that IRL).

slipset10:08:05

I think the hallway-track is super hard to recreate through zoom/hangouts/whatever. Maybe that's a problem to be solved?

slipset10:08:49

Like how do you create/visualize these groups of people who might discuss interesting things, and how do you find the groups that are interesting for you.

plexus10:08:59

we tried to do this with CEST, encourage multiple people to start video chat groups so people can hop between them. We've run three events, and the amounts of groups that were actually created was one, zero, and zero.

plexus10:08:31

hence my conclusion that doing more video calls in the evening after work is not something people are excited about, but maybe there are other factors. I do notice it myself though. The Berlin Emacs meetup is tonight, this is a meetup I helped found so many years back, but I really can't bring myself to log on.

RAMart11:08:25

We're also struggling with how to do :clojureD 2021. I visited Clojure/north and FrOSCon (last week-end). Both confs used to be IRL and went online. I spoke to sponsors, organizers and attendees. It's really hard to craft an exciting online conf, now that the first "OMG! A zoom conf!" effect is over.

slipset12:08:20

To make things even harder (for the organizers (sorry @ramart)) I'm quite sure that giving an online talk would not be as interesting as giving a live one.

emak16:08:41

@slipset it sounds like wrestling in an empty arena, I am not familiar enough with zoom but does it have the spot lights and smoke machine background mode to cover for the lack of crowd?

slipset16:08:20

Not sure, since when wrestling your opponent is there. The thing that’s really hard to achieve is the contact with the audience.

dominicm17:08:29

Something I've realized is that body language doesn't come across on video. I can't back away if I'm losing interest, I can't open my mouth if I'd like to say something. You don't spot it on camera with the latency and such.