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#jobs-discuss
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2018-10-24
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alexlynham10:10:25

I always encourage people to talk salary at user groups because in my experience the distribution is crazy

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alexlynham10:10:06

There's always a senior on 30k and a cocky junior who is overconfident on 50k

alexlynham10:10:16

(outside of London)

danm10:10:44

Yeah, I always think the beeb pays low, and talking to other people from large companies it does, but I also know a lot of folks from smaller orgs who don't pay anything like what we do but want similar experience etc

alexlynham10:10:12

Yeah but that's symptomatic of engineers negotiating badly

danm10:10:32

Well, maybe. I wasn't talking to devs about what they were being paid with the smaller orgs. I was talking to hiring managers about what they were able to offer, and they weren't desperate for folks because noone was biting or anything

alexlynham10:10:35

I guess there's also the largely unspoken thing that quality of candidate varies wildly - and even within that, it's a guessing game as to who will be effective in their job once they land

alexlynham10:10:23

Complicated by the fact that one person would smash it in environment x but flounder in environment y - and as a recruitment panel person you have to shoot at that moving target as well...

Aleksander10:10:41

I have at least few experiences of my peers and seniors being paid below what I’m paid

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Aleksander10:10:53

then hearing they just didn’t negotiate at all

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shan10:10:09

Yep, a lot of people just don’t negotiate at all

shan10:10:36

accept the first offer and hope the company does a readjustment (when they find out they’ve been paid less then everyone else). But that rarely happens

Aleksander10:10:03

I’ve never seen company making significant adjustments …

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mccraigmccraig11:10:07

it does happen - i was discussing making adjustments for some of my people with our cfo yesterday

Aleksander10:10:22

unless maybe when someone is threatening to leave

Vincent Cantin13:10:21

(I guess that) it's often those who accept a proposed salary without negociating who leave without threat or negociation.

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shan10:10:25

I’ve seen it a few times. But only when people say they are leaving / have another offer on the table

shan10:10:39

yeah, it’s pretty much too late then

bballant20:10:49

Re salary, I tried to press a friend of mine who is a successful recruiter on how much I should ask for when negotiating for a new job, and he basically said "As much as you can get". He also said that it's "all over the place" (which means average is a horrible way to determine what you should be asking for).

bballant20:10:39

Also, if you have a decent job but are looking for the next opportunity, you're in a good position to negotiate.

mattly20:10:04

right, your BATNA is basically staying put

bballant20:10:07

Totes. And negotiation doesn't have to be scary either.

manutter5120:10:04

Heh, I remember one time during a phone screen the guy asked me, "So why do you want to work for us?" and I said, "Well, actually, you called me -- I'm actually pretty happy where I am." and he kinda sputtered for a minute.

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the2bears21:10:46

I got a similar question, "Why do you want to leave your current job?". I replied, "I don't, but you contacted me!" :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

bballant20:10:06

Often, before the interview process even begins, a recruiter will ask your "salary requirements". I try to flip that around and say something like "Obviously I want a salary commensurate with my experience, but I'm also interested in other benefits. What benefits do you offer?"

taylor20:10:07

haha sorry to be pedantic but "commensurate"; although commiserate has a much funnier connotation in this context

bballant21:10:25

Oh yeah. I knew I was screwing that up, but was too lazy to figure it out -- spellcheck and done!

bballant21:10:56

but of course I'm going to fix it now.

taylor21:10:26

"commiserate with my experience" is a very apt programmer phrase

bballant21:10:35

My salary loves to commiserate w/ my experience: "That asshole would rather have healthcare! The nerve!"

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bballant21:10:37

Maybe even that's not the right usage... I'm going back to Clojure 🙂.

mattly20:10:12

yeah, the best job I ever had was also one of my lower-salaried (though still above the average listed above), but was only four days a week and had four weeks of vacation time

mattly20:10:13

which, four days is a huge benefit that to me would be worth quite a bit of money given I was still making enough to meet my expenses

bballant20:10:17

Yeah, I try to get them to say a number first or wait it out.

bballant20:10:40

And def def def never tell them what you make now.

mattly20:10:02

yep. in some states (California and Oregon I know this for sure), it's illegal for them to ask you how much you make now, even

bballant20:10:04

Yeah, for me, in the US, healthcare is a big deal.

bballant20:10:39

Many companies offer great salaries but horrible health benefits and you end up paying 1-2k a month (for family coverage).

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taylor20:10:43

whenever I get asked for current comp. I just add 15-20% to what I want to get paid

bballant20:10:18

At my current job, when they gave me the offer, I asked for an explanation of the health benefits and the costs. I was able to negotiate there too, since it's a bit easier for a company (I think) to give you benefits instead of increasing salary.

taylor20:10:53

definitely ask them for benefit costs, which they easily have on-hand, and especially if you have dependents/family to cover

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