Hi all. I was wondering if there is a way to get auto-completion of namespaces and vars in the figwheel repl?

richiardiandrea: at any rate, big thumbs up for replumb! here's what we ended up building using bootstrapped cljs: http://landofquil.we-do-fp.berlin

@darwin why are you using so many macros in chromex?

@thheller: hm, flexibility? also the generated code is not so verbose

macros make the code much less flexible in my experience

I started generating them without macros, but that led to a lot of “templating” work

well, maybe we could discuss specifics, I know about the problem that once you step into macro land you have to stay there, but this does not seem to be a problem for chromex

I have this idea for a cljs devtools extension that provides a repl, namespace browser, test runner etc

started fiddling with some chrome ext stuff

I have also some ideas for this, just wanted to start hacking on it today

maybe we should join forces

I’m going to fork blink devtools and add missing cljs bits

well I started a few months ago but only have very limited time at the moment

and provide a way how to run standalone chrome instance with this devtools fork + some extension to aid cljs development

cljs-devtools will be a big part of it

I really want it to work outside chrome though

so my idea currently is to use a normal SPA for the devtools stuff

and just load that via an iframe or something into the chrome devtools

eg. create a tab for it

so the devtools stuff is not integrated into the actual page

basically as a remote to the browser window

https://github.com/thheller/shadow-devtools/tree/master/client

none of it works anymore

but the devtools tab was easy enough 😛

only reason do hook it into devtools really is to have it side-by-side with the browser window

at least for me

I see that you are using apis to inject some code into inspectedwindow

how that would work without chrome extension apis?

in a different browser?

you would open an iframe with access to parent?

basically yes

it is all driven by the server process

since you really need access to the compiler

so shadow-devtools sort of acts as a gateway

(using shadow-build to compile stuff)

IMO we should first focus to make best experience in chrome/devtools and maybe later think about supporting other platforms

I’m planning to use figwheel for this

I really want it to work without chrome

I will connect to its REPL

eg. mobile browser but devtools on desktop

https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=484261

shadow-devtools has a REPL and figwheel-ish features built in already

chrome has remote debugging, it will work in my scenario of devtools fork

just need to put a prompt somewhere 😉

I will put prompt into js devtools console

prefixed by >

will do color coding if you are executing cljs stuff or plain js stuff

it will send the command to figwheels via nREPL and echo results back, presented by cljs-devtools

that second part works already: https://github.com/binaryage/cljs-devtools/wiki/Figwheel-REPL-plugin

with that devtools fork, I can optionally inject cljs-devtools support and this figwheel REPL integration into js context automatically

so people don’t have to set it up in their projects (but this is not a big priority)

that is one of my biggest priorities 😛

also I will present figwheels, warnings and compilation errors in this separate chrome/devtools instance

I do not want dev related code in my code

always worried it ends up in production 😛

the problem with this automatic approach is versioning, the code needs to be compiled agains some version of clojurescript, which one?

what if there are breaking changes?

hmm?

I consider caching a solved problem in shadow-build

so there should never be version conflicts

caching? Let me rephrase, cljs-devtools is implemented in cljs and has to be compiled, if I’m about to provide it automatically and inject into js context of running cljs app, I have to know which version of cljs compiler/library they used for the app, so cljs-devtools code snaps with it

https://github.com/thheller/shadow-build-example

this is a theoretical problem, most of the time this is not an issue, but it could be

run lein run -m build/dev-repl

this starts a REPL and figwheel-ish reloading

without any modification of cljs code

same could be done for cljs-devtools

let the build tool handle it

eg. say 'inject-cljs-devtools' and be done with it

ok, if you have control over the build that this is good approach, but in my model I don’t, I let people use whatever build tooling they wish

I don’t care

ah got ya

but you really need support from the build tool for some stuff

can't do it all via the REPL

depends on goals, my goal is to aid clojurescript development/debugging on client side, user has to have his own nREPL for devtools to connect to it, same with error/warnings reporting, there must be some “provider"

in first iteration I will use/bend figwheel for this

but people can provide their own “providers”, devtools will connect to them as clients

so I don’t care that much how the code is compiled/built, the provider will have to tell me important events

same with testing, I’m going to write my own test reporting, but there must be something like karma, to report which tests were ran/failed

this is probably due to my poor google skills, but I can't find what differences are expected between JDK versions in advanced compilation output

I believe this all can be implemented into figwheel as proof-of-concept, and later broken into independent tools, if it can fly

mcgivernsa: no differences really

I get different files on compiling the same project with the Oracle JDK and OpenJDK

different how?

but because it's advanced compilation output it's hard to tell

the file contents are different

the behaviour of both files seems the same

might be a closure issue, just not sure if there's somewhere I can look before I try to create a minimal repro

never checked how stable the naming is

but one run might be different from another even on the same jvm

since closure renames everything

as long as everything works that should not be a problem

I get consistent results on different machines with the same version, I guess I was expecting builds to be reproducible

@mcgivernsa: pretty sure there are no such guarantees that builds will produce the exact same source

Ok, that's fine too 😃

@darwin: interesting stuff in cljs-devtools, never knew about custom formatters ... quite hard to find docs for it 😛

@thheller: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FTascZXT9cxfetuPRT2eXPQKXui4nWFivUnS_335T3U/edit

yeah I found that link buried in a chromium issue somewhere

yep, one has to follow chromium issues and their IRC channel, ideally

there is some interesting development by some TypeScript guy from Microsoft, but I don’t want to wait for it anymore, the process it too slow and not necessarily fitting my ideas: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=484261

his vision is too grand, he wants to turn devtools into an IDE for TypeScript

some pieces of it could be repurposed for clojurescript, but it is not clear how (at this point)

my original idea was to build an electron app, which would host devtools fork, but there is a better approach, I believe now: http://www.nowherenearithaca.com/2013/12/setting-up-debugging-of-chrome-devtools.html

you can run chrome and point it to your version of devtools frontend

that is better beceause Electron does not have Extension APIs available as they are in the full chrome, so you cannot really run devtools extensions or arbitrary chrome extensions in electron

it is not that bad, to require people to run another isolated instance of Chrome Canary as their “Electron-like” app hosting this cljs-devtools tooling, with all possible whistles

and I don’t have to maintain binary releases of packaged Electron app, they just go and grab latest Chrome

@thheller: do you know about cuttle? https://github.com/oakmac/cuttle, I'd to integrate something like this later

ok, so I have this nice, expressive language called EDN. Then I want to talk to my endpoint using GET. What do I do?

According to the http spec, I’m not allowed to encode the EDN in the body of a GET request. The other alternative is to serialize everything as query parameters, but that just seems like a wasteful mapping

@darwin cuttle is nice idea although at the moment I'm trying to reduce the apps/windows I have running

that doesn't fit too well with my goals

my setup now is cursive+repl + browser/devtools open

not sure I like the idea of hooking directly into the devtools console

maybe with parinfer

@grav: if the data is small enough encode edn->base64 and just put one param into the url to GET

works reasonably well with smalls maps

@thheller: that is my setup as well, I just make repl available in devtools as well, and start displaying figwheel’s alerts there too, plus improve some aspects of devtools (inline evaluated values will use custom formatters for example)

yeah I just tested cljs-devtools, seems to have some issues with large values

but besides that it is pretty nice

I’m not aware of any issues with large values, bug reports welcome

I just console.log my app-state which is a map with records as keys and maps as values

so the preview is multiple lines long

confusing stuff happens when clicking the arrows

will try more later, got some work waiting 😛

@grav are you familiar with ring and compojure?

@bensu Yes, we’re using Compojure, but I’m a newbie

@thheller - but then it just seems easier to use a POST, where I can rely on transit encoding and decoding stuff

@grav are you trying to figure out how to talk to an existing endpoint, develop and endpoint, or both?

@bensu: both -

@grav ok, assuming the correct verb is GET, what parameters does the endpoint need?

It might need something like {:created some-date :location some-location}, where both some-date and some-location might be ‘rich’ data types

rich as in arbitrary edn?

yes, exactly

My “problem” is that it seems wasteful to invent my own serialization

@grav hmm

if you use something like https://github.com/JulianBirch/cljs-ajax and pass your map as :query it will serialize it

I don't know if that is a good idea though, because you'll be left with monstrous urls

I think https://github.com/r0man/cljs-http has the same funcitonality

on the other side, you'll need https://ring-clojure.github.io/ring/ring.middleware.params.html#var-wrap-params to decode the params and get them as clojure data

Hi all, I’ve been looking at re-frame for a SPA. I really like the event driven pipeline, but would prefer to just use type-1 reagent components, instead of type-2 and the reactions etc. Is there a really good reason I couldnt just use the type-1 components?

@underplank: with type 1 components your subscriptions will always get re-created while rendering causing computation overhead

Hi all. Looking for a clientside DB. Found https://github.com/tonsky/datascript . Are there other alternatives you could recommend?

@polymeris: that’s the most popular and most mature solution

Thanks, @dnolen

@martinklepsch: Ahh, so its an optimization then? In practice is it needed? Im just trying to weigh up the optimization with the simplicity of type-1 components.

I guess if they put it in there then its probably needed 😉

@underplank: it's not exactly an optimization

It's for the cases when you need state to persists across renderings.

@underplank: there’s also #C073DKH9P btw

Internal to the component.

Oh! I didnt realize that. I might go and ask over there.

@jaen: Right, so in some cases its used for that. But for re-frame and subscriptions (i think thats the right thing) its a pattern that they advise.

Then I suppose you could call it an optimisation of sorts - you don't want to repeatedly call subscribe and create a reaction if you can do it only once.

@jaen: Right. I was thinking of replacing the subscribe functionality with something else. And im basically trying to work out the tradeoffs atm.

Mainly because I think the type-1 components have a much easier testing story than the type-2.

Unless im missing something. It seems to get the datastructure out of type-2 I need to jump through more hoops.

Quite possibly, I royally suck at testing so I unfortunately can't offer more help in that regard.

Is there a way to enable-console-print! that is valid for within go blocks? Or basically just a way to set *print-fn* globally?

enable-console-print! is global

hmmm it doesn't seem to be. I'm working w/ cider + figwheel, and I call enable-console-print! and then try to do prn in a go block, and it throws an error

(.log js/console (pr-str %))

does it work if you call enable-console-print! and prn directly after?

figwheel might be setting its own print-fn, not sure

@bensu: thanks for the links! I’m currently using POSTs only. Very un-restful but apart from that it seems I get a lot of other stuff for free ...

thheller: well yes, if they're both within the go block. But the error is no *print-fn* defined, so that's not the issue

you call it inside the go block?

why are you prn inside of your js code? figwheel does not eval that code

@jr b/c I'm a noob and don't know what else to do 😄

I do prn debugging all the time

works really with live-reloading too

thheller: if I do (enable-console-print!) (go (prn (<! c))) then it doesn't work. If I do (go (enable-console-print!) (prn (<! c))) then it works

thats odd, it is a set! not a binding, so it should work wherever

is that at the top level?

or somewhere something else might be using a binding?

eg. figwheel repl invoke?

I'll try putting it at the top level

As part of the recruiting process for devs for an upcoming client project my firm will do, I’m looking for some sample code that converts what we’re doing with React + Ruby on Rails to Om-Next (or some other ClojureScript project): https://github.com/shakacode/reactrails-in-om-next-example/blob/master/README.md

@justin808: probably a bit too early to try that with Om Next seeing that we’re still in alpha

also reagent (and the re-frame approach) is quite popular and worthy of assessment

@dnolen: Thanks for the advice! How soon do you think we can do such an example?

@justin808: probably late December or early January

there's some pretty major feature issues blocking a beta

@justin808: if you’re interested in following along there is an #C06DT2YSY channel

Thanks! My firm is doing lots in the react and Ruby on Rails space (http://www.shakacode.com) and we’re looking to support Clojure as well for our clients.

is there any nREPL client implementation in clojurescript? I want to connect to nREPL session from a web page.

@darwin look at http://himera.herokuapp.com/index.html

thanks

@richiardiandrea: they don’t implement nREPL, they have some custom API for evaluating commands

I need proper nREPL client library implemented in cljs (not in clojure)

oh, that's different yes

sorry about that, the only thing I can think of is Figwheel, which connects to nRepl with some fiddling but I don't know the innards

figwheel is nREPL server, and does that on server-side

don't think there is a nrepl client

so it is implemented in clojure

the closest so far is https://github.com/maxbrunsfeld/nrepl.js, will probably use that for now

would be nice to have cljs implementation eventually

https://github.com/shakacode/reactrails-in-reagent per @dnolen’s advice…Great way to get our attention, if you have the time.

Our recruiting is based heavily on open source contributions and blog articles.

Works great for a remote-first team.

I hope socket REPL becomes popular soon, nREPL is not fun to work with

My current goal was to connect to Figwheel's nREPL, I don’t want to implement nREPL client in clojurescript (seems like a bit of work which will become obsolete soon-ish)

I will probably cheat here and introduce new protocol into figwheel and use it as REPL command delivery for now

@dnolen: would you be interested in tests covering other compiler config options similar to https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/53fd5991a41f49e7dffdd891c445f48f0835e223?

@danielcompton: yep any and all tests welcome

while we have good coverage of the ClojureScript runtime bits

we’re sorely lacking in terms of actual compiler tests

yeah, I did notice that … 😊

Can anyone recommend a minimal, up-to-date cljsbuild-based template? I just need to put together an example project for something, and in this case it'll be valuable to have it use cljsbuild (otherwise I'd use Mies).

@eggsyntax: the figwheel template comes with cljsbuild and it's fairly up to date

@bensu: thanks. Not as minimal as I hoped for on this one, as much as I love it & use it for everything.

@eggsyntax: it will probably take you more time to look after the template than to delete the extra stuff from figwheel's project.clj, it has only three extra deps after all.

Actually, taking a fresh look at it, it's pretty damn minimal. I'd misremembered. I'll go with it. Thanks, good call!

Either Bruce has simplified it further in the last six months, or my memory's going. Or both 😉

@eggsyntax: no problem. it might be that it has options to add stuff, without them there isn't much besides figwheel.

it has options for om and reagent but they hardly do more than add the dependencies

hahaha @noonian: don't short sell them, I added those options

@bensu: hah! Well, I use them and I like that it’s a minimal template.