@vheuken I proposed it as an addition to Monger https://github.com/michaelklishin/monger/pull/176

anyone developed a slack plugin in clojure before?

nope, but a quick google shows at least 1 jvm library

https://github.com/Ullink/simple-slack-api

what are the hurdles you are running into?

or are you still at the exploration stage?

How do you guys typically manage globals? I'm about to refactor/clean up my code barf for https://github.com/ahungry/ahubu and break it down into sensible modules (its a webkit based browser with vim/emacs like bindings and will have a lot of hooks ala emacs hook system soon). But I rely on a few global atoms such as the javafx stage + current scene (tab/buffer etc.)

there are a few ways, but the simplest I know of is the Component system

https://github.com/stuartsierra/component

basically, wrap your "globals" as components

and find a good entry place for injection

Nice, so basically a prebuilt DI setup?

well, framework to support it

but if is a small app maybe you are fine with atoms

kiiinda

I would just watch a talk or two on it

that should give you enough to decide if its right for you

there is nothing wrong with just using some atoms/refs

thanks - components reminds me a little bit of common lisp asdf defsystem

looking at your github I can see youve done quite a bit of classical lisp

yea i'm not real sure why I put off looking into clojure for so long, but in the last 2 weeks, definitely bitten by the clojure bug 😆

@emccue I am just trying to figure out if its at all worth it to write a slack app

my idea was to create a kanban in slack, but it seems as if that is just not possible

I know lots of slack integrations are written in node, so i'm sure you could use clojurescript if for some reason plain old clojure can't (its just api calls though )

yeah maybe I am in the wrong channel lol

but they accept php and java too

so clojure should work

but I just realized that the slack extensions are rather boring

I cant display a cool kanban

cant

in slack directly

I just saw this article pop up, slack has a poor policy on any add on that leaves what they're comfortable with https://g3rv4.com/2018/08/betterslack

cool

I think we can do a chromium app and then distribute it in our company team

in case this works

or is there a way to create a standalone EXE or APP file for the team with anything lol

yeah with Electron

I’m building a slack app right now. I’ll probably use clojure for bits of it

yeah cool

what does your app do?

it probably can't display a kanban

or is there any part of the API I missed? 😄

sends text messages based on notifications

yeah they don’t support much outside of regular messaging

no fun

slack is just the best messenger for teams

whats the best option for profiling clojure?

Something simple, If someone have used Haskell I'm searching something like "-prof"

@lucaspolymeris i like to use oracle jdk together with jmc myself, but YMMV

@dl maybe you can send a picture as a message, and use that to show an SVG of the generated kanban?

@clojurians-slack interesting... but I would be interested in moving them too

anyway a have a php app in production that is the core of my business

with a mysql db running on a few instances

I want to create an interface in clojure as my first clojure project

for it

what is the best way to go ahead?

can I inject clojure into php?

it uses a smooth deployment with the deployer php app

to multiple instances

anyway my plan is to move the script over to clojure long term

its basically a payment processing CRM with affiliate tracking

I have looked into firebase and datomic and think they are awesome

but I think I have to go step by step

maybe first design an interface in clojure, so that you can create new products and see the traffic stats there

and create new campaigns, change prices of the products, etc

add new affiliates and so on

anyway currently every legal entity that uses the script got their own DB and php instance with different domains

when migrating the code base over to clojure, should I keep it that way and maybe migrate each mysql db into their own datomic or should I create a big clojure app that keeps all of the code in one instance?

I have seen the datomic ions, thats pretty cool stuff...

I see this article here: https://medium.com/@kari.marttila/become-a-full-stack-developer-with-clojure-and-clojurescript-c58c93479294

he describes to do the backend in cl, and the frontend in cljs

maybe I should keep the backend in php for now and implement a frontedn that accesses the mysql db in cljs?

If you have scaling issues with php I'm not sure how "inject clojure into php" will help. Not sure what that would even look like. I would imagine you want to move responsibilities to Clojure piece by piece.

@dl yeah, there's a lot of options. You can do a gradual migration or a clean slate, green field thing. Or variations in between. I don't have a lot of php experience

@the2bears hmm I think I miscommunicated scaling issues... the code is fast enough for now

maybe a better word would be its a little buggy and takes longer time than necessary to deploy a new domain

and its impossible to change domains for now

but I should look into cljs and not cl to setup the interface?

cl?

how do I access mysql then?

clojure (cl) vs clojurescript (cljs)

Right, that might be the most incremental approach

I thought I need cl to access the mysqldb?

Just building clojure views over your existing db

(the common parlance is "clj" for clojure)

sorry for the newbie questions, I am currently working trough Getting Clojure by Russ Olsen

Well, you've given a pretty high-level and very vague description of your system w/some jargon specific to you. I would be hesitant to suggest anything without knowing what the architecture looks like now.

ok thanks for the feedback

JDBC for connecting to DBs from Java

It you ask whether you should use CLJS for the front-end, what is it even replacing? (for example)

php frontend code

which I needed to delete

as the contractors did unsafe work

so as I did the backend, I will have to create the frontend I guess

But your approach makes sense in that front/back is usually a clear separation and lends itself nicely to a piece-by-piece approach to replacing and refactoring code.

and its a nice project to learn CLJ 🙂

however my questions is... can I directly access the DB from CLJS

or do I indeed need to start with a CLJ backend that accesses the DB

"front end" to me implies the user interface, is that what you mean?

YES!

CLJ for talking to the db

it is a frontend where users can administer the CRM systems

add new products, change prices

Okay, is it in a browser or where?

yes!

For the front end, either a thin thing generated as hiccup, sent out server side, or if you need a lot of dynamism, CLJS on the front end

Most folks just go with CLJS/CLJ front/back

cool

So back end talks to the dB, or should in most cases, as you don't want to expose it to the browser.

yes

and I need to program the backend for the interface too

as I only have the DB

the data comes to the DB from the PHP script, which runs stable

I developed it over the years

it writes it in there whenever a sale goes trough the website via an API I developed

but only for the sales and adding customer data to the DB

There's lots of ways to skin the cat. A good bridge from the php/rails world is the luminus template and tutorials

however there is no Backend code yet to display data or add new products

as I needed to fire the php devs and delete their code

Yeah, start by writing your UI w/CLJS and access the existing back-end.

Luminus is probably your ideal onramp

no there is no existing backend for reading the data

or changeing the data, I do that in PHPmyAdmin now 😕

Well, something in php is reading the dB, no?

well yeah, but its only for the sales situation

when a customer comes to the page and makes purchases

Hmmm... more work on your architecture before deciding what to implement it with.

I think I got what you want to tell me

I think the way to go ahead is:

It's unclear from a slack conversation what you have and don't have. It's getting really off topic.

create a CLJ backend that access the current mysql data and exposes it as an API

create a CLJS frontend that connects to the CLJ backend and displays the data in the browser

and the user can do changes there

the core stuff where the sales happen is implemented in PHP and just works

maybe we can move that over to CLJ later 🙂

Yes, that's a good description. I don't do much web stuff, but look at the examples in the web frameworks for a starting point. Luminus was mentioned above.

thank you so much guys!

it really helped me clarify my thoughts...

what is the smoothest way for CLJ and CLJS to communicate?

np! I'd recommend reviewing these strategies http://www.luminusweb.net/ and once you have a migration path worked out, then explore datomic ions and see if you can move your data model over

yeah

I will definitely look into datomic later

What do you mean? They will be separate processes. So I assume we're talking REST apis to get things going quickly.

but for now to get started its easier to use the extisting mysql dg

db

@the2bears yeah I mean how does backend and frontend code communicate... in PHP its kind of all together and accesses the DB directly (what a mess!)

for example... customer goes on a page and enters credit card data, the page is just an html file which accesses the PHP API for sales then in the Backend, but its all kind of in similar folders

in the same project

Just what I said, get a simple REST example working. Write a CLJ handler that reads something from your dB. That's a web-based API you'll create. Then, call that from CLJS in your browser and display the result.

cool!

thank you so much guys! I will study some more getting clojure and then do my first steps in the project

but its probably not possible to run the clj backend in the same project with the PHP code...

so I will have to deploy the clj backend code on the same server to be able to access the DBs

or does anyone have migrated from PHP to CLJ/CLJS before?

Not sure what you mean by "same project"

Write your CLJ separately, deploy on the machine you need to

it will of course run in its own process

I mean the php frontend file which displays the order form is actually directly using the DB and PHP session as the API script which runs in the backend

thats what I mean with mess

and it contains PHP and HTML code lol

and DB access code

The "front end file"? That is a back end file that generates the html that the browser displays if I understand. Not sure I do, as we're talking circles here wrt definitions. Front end is the browser in your case. Not the file running on the server that generates the html returned to the browser.

its the same in this case....

JDBC I believe grabs a handle to your locally running db. If you have access to the local box and can install java and clojure, etc, you should be good

yeah cool man

I will do my first steps now thank you so much!

You'll need the db creds I believe

got root

access

What could go wrong? 😂

You sound pretty unhappy with the whole setup. Maybe look into a more datomic ions solution sooner rather than later.

yeah

I am really unhappy as its a mess

the result of hiring and firing a bunch of PHP devs

Yeah, you should figure out the architecture you want first, before you spend time changing anything in the current setup.

but it works

and its the core of my business

And it sounds like you're not happy with the security around the db. Might want to square that away sooner rather than later, or migrate to a cleaner setup.

so first step is getting my feet wet in CLJ and CLJS by creating an interface for the existing DB model

aye

then I will have more experience

Yes, CLJ talks to the dB, CLJS talks to the CLJ back-end.

cool! now I got it 🙂

No other communication! 🙂

I thought I can access the DB directly from CLJS lol

Especially between the browser and the dB

"access" is a relative term 😉

Just because you can...

ah

should not because of security

got it

It's the core of your business, definitely not due to security and SLA of the interface.

:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

So Mike Fikes has been doing all these performance tests on the clojurescript compiler using a large corpus of problems from the 4clojure website. A quarter million lines of clojure code. Pretty cool stuff. But it got me thinking, what if you put all that code into a word2vec? Would you be able to query for semantically similar code?

So I whipped this up this morning: clojure -Sdeps '{:deps {johnmn3/coal-mine2vec {:git/url "" :sha "46af3670c16b9a3b827c1e144b76c116dc45a4ce"}}}' "-m" "coal-mine2vec.is-to" map reduce for

"map" is to "reduce" as "for" is probably to "loop"
 ... but may also be one of these: "&" "c]" "a]" "["

So you pass it a pair of functions and a third that you want to find the analogy of

like, "thing A is to thing B, as thing C is to what?"

neat!

Right? There's probably some interesting applications. Maybe some code gen thing, for testing.

Or code analytics

might be a basis for a kind of styleguide hint/suggestion algorithm

yeah, an assistant of some sort

completions

I think one of the hardest things about clojure’s core library is that it’s so vast, and relatively unorganized

you might have a task that you think might already be solved (or would be surprised to find out!), but not know how to search for what you want

Yeah, it's a wide and flat first class environment, in that regard

so being able to draw relationships between fns and forms that are used on similar data structures or similar uses could be really valuable, actually!

Yeah, it's not very accurate though, at the moment

might need to dump a few million more lines of code in it 🙂

Another good inference:

"inc" is to "dec" as "max" is probably to "min"
 ... but may also be one of these: "loop" "a]" "[b" ":else"

half the time the result is way off though

Also, you could take spec.gen and produce billions of valid functions, and then train the word2vec on that, to see if it can heuristically detect invalid forms

maybe...

Hi All, had a small question. How do I set the order of execution of my unit tests? How do I make tests from one namespace run before tests from some other namespace?

hate to x-y you but unit test order should be opaque and meaningless

but you can check out https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.test/run-tests to specify an order of namespaces

@punit-naik I'll second @dpsutton’s comment: you really should not have test order dependencies -- each test should be self-contained and should be able to run before or after any other test. Otherwise your tests are not repeatable on their own.

and the docstring to the test namespace is really great: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/test.clj

including notes about ordering

@seancorfield @dpsutton Thanks for your suggestions!

How do I use spec to match exactly a keyword? E.g If I have [ [:foo "a"] [:bar "b"]] but I need to apply different specs to "a" and "b"

I know I can write a function, but that seems hard work

@punit-naik If you really want a sequence like set up, run some tests, teardown, best to do that inside one deftest form.

@foobar use #{:foo} to match