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#clojure-uk
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2019-02-27
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seancorfield00:02:24

I learned Rust after Go -- and Rust was definitely more what I had hoped Go would be, if that makes sense?

mccraigmccraig00:02:04

rust looks pretty cool for bringing memory safety and lexical closures to a systems programming language

seancorfield00:02:29

I really enjoyed learning Rust but, man, that borrow checker is hard to satisfy sometimes! 🙂

mccraigmccraig08:02:50

i haven't meddled @seancorfield - does it get easier with experience ? do you find yourself having to do what feels like unnatural things or do the constraints of the borrow checker lead to increased elegance in your code ?

alexlynham08:02:52

Morning morning

guy09:02:51

morning!

alexlynham09:02:35

fancy seeing you here @jasonbell (I always think yr handle is jsonbell for some reason)

😂 15
jasonbell09:02:16

{"message":"Don't know what you mean gov"} 🙂

alexlynham09:02:25

{"last_name": "bell"} <-- jsonbell

alexlynham09:02:54

@seancorfield followed one of the links in that Go article you posted and it really strikes me that the ‘koolaid point’ probably applies to modern JS, serverless, whatnot as well, just as much as it applies to Go. Interesting read as I hadn’t seen the term before http://seriouspony.com/trouble-at-the-koolaid-point

alexlynham10:02:47

(worth saying, content warning as the article is about online bullying of women in tech spaces and is as dark as you’d expect)

guy10:02:53

damn thats a pretty harrowing read

alexlynham11:02:49

I mean and not exactly surprsing either, which is sad

yogidevbear19:02:25

That was a very heavy read

3Jane11:02:06

/heavy sigh

3Jane11:02:46

there was research done at around the time of gamergate about men harassing women in online games

3Jane11:02:47

They discovered that it was performed by men who were doing badly in game, worse than women they harassed.

guy11:02:32

is that basically the “your sadness is my happyness”

guy11:02:36

concept*

3Jane11:02:38

I wonder how much it has to do with cases like that. “She’s outcompeting me in an area which is rightfully mine, therefore I must run her out in order to get what I deserve.” (Do people get outraged at women “winning at” / famous for typically feminine occupations, like, I don’t know, Mary Berry?)

guy11:02:21

To me i see it more of an ego thing, “how dare you be good at something i like”

3Jane11:02:43

It’s not just good, but better than them. Men who are as-good-or-better don’t feel that need (according to one study, in the area of gaming, disclaimers apply, etc.)

3Jane11:02:52

More generally, the world’s suddenly getting more squished by competition these days, and everyone feels threatened

3Jane11:02:41

I read an interesting article on this the other day, where the author called the race to the bottom “Moloch” https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

3Jane11:02:03

He doesn’t really have an answer apart from cultivating the good qualities of humanity, community, and empathy.

alexlynham11:02:56

empathy is the winning formula once again 🙂

danm12:02:09

If it's purely being jealous of someone who is better than them, though, why do they not react similarly towards other men who are better than them?

alexlynham12:02:27

> If it’s purely being jealous of someone who is better than them, though it’s not: > it was performed by men who were doing badly in game, worse than women the gender part is key

rickmoynihan13:02:54

> why do they not react similarly towards other men who are better than them? I suspect it traces it’s roots to male notions of gender… e.g. “boy’s dont cry”, “don’t be a sissy/cry-baby/girl whatever…“. I’ve not read the article yet, and I don’t want to excuse that kind of behaviour; but it is worth asking the question why men often feel it’s worse to be beaten by a girl than a guy. I suspect it’s because they’re overly attached to heavily masculine notions of self, and that society has had part to play in that. It’s also true that heavily masculine traits are applauded and praised; so I think some men want to be “real men” (whatever that is), and this is a byproduct of a fragile ego. Personally I find it extremely ironic (and kind of amusing) when guys latch onto the macho thing (which is fine in and of itself), but then flip out and expose a completely fragile ego at the most minor affront to their alpha-maleness. In reality I think they’re just deeply insecure, and exposing themselves as not being an alpha-male at all (if they were that great they’d be tough enough to take it on the chin and laugh).

3Jane13:02:07

I’m not sure if it’s a male thing, so much as ownership thing

rickmoynihan13:02:41

I agree that the male thing is an instance of a more general phenomenon. I think the general phenomenon is overly attaching your identity to a particular thing. Other examples might include programming languages (tbaldridge recently admitted this in his exchange with rich), religion, sports, hobbies etc.

rickmoynihan13:02:02

oh just seen you’ve said this in the comment below. I think we’re in agreement.

3Jane13:02:37

yeah, I’ve been thinking on this recently (taken up meditation, buddhists talk about identity a lot)

3Jane13:02:53

the artificial construction of identity and how it restricts us later in what we allow ourselves to do

rickmoynihan13:02:18

:thumbsup: Do you know of Alan Watts?

3Jane13:02:36

also “keep your identity small” http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

3Jane13:02:50

I know of him, but I’m trying not to get too mystical if that makes sense

rickmoynihan13:02:43

It does; but I don’t consider Alan Watts particularly mystical. I think he’s good at recontextualising some of the mysticism and stories from a modern perspective. Personally I think everything Alan Watts says fits perfectly with the modern scientific view.

rickmoynihan13:02:51

It’s true that he also blew the minds of 60's counter-culture — but I’d give him a shot. He’s great because he doesn’t take anything too seriously — he does however mean it sincerely!

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rickmoynihan14:02:13

I agree with your point about identity though… Though I think the more general problem with identity is the problem of attachment (which is the root of suffering).

3Jane14:02:39

….and this is how far we can get from Clojure on a good day 😄

👍 5
danielneal14:02:31

pack a light lunch, we'll be hitting metaphysics by sundown

3Jane14:02:27

Douglas Adams ahoy!

rickmoynihan14:02:09

metaphysics and buddhism are essentially indistinguishable to me… except buddhism makes you feel better 😀

Rachel Westmacott09:02:16

Sorry I’m late to the party here, but this thread is GOLD

Rachel Westmacott09:02:25

I’ve often felt that taking a more verb-based notion of identity as opposed to a noun-based one is a good idea. (ie. I am one-who-codes vs. I am a coder)

rickmoynihan12:02:21

I think that’s a good idea when having to describe yourself… however you can still fall into the trap of believing the descriptions of your self are yourself. More Watts: > There was a young man who said though, > It really seems that I know, > If I could see the I that is me, > Then I’d know that I’d know that I’d know.

3Jane13:02:25

Compare to people angry at immigrants for “stealing” jobs

3Jane13:02:18

Or people angry at other people for “stealing” their partner (breakups.)

3Jane13:02:35

Competing in the area you’re traditionally supposed to be good at, whatever your identity, makes you insecure if you suspect you don’t measure up and therefore aren’t a real… what? a real man, a real woman, a real Scotsman.

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guy13:02:12

i think this is quite insightful tbh and true

3Jane13:02:18

Anyway … to turn things around thanks for the link @alex.lynham - I’m gonna get her book 😄

3Jane15:02:10

…what the heck do you use to work with xml in an exploratory way in repl?

guy15:02:57

you could use the clojure xml lib, but ive used clj-xpath i think its called

guy15:02:33

basically, u slurp the xml, then convert it Then u can use selectors/xpath stuff as far as i remmeber

guy15:02:41

I liked the clj-xpath because you could do neat things like ($x:text "/rss/channel/title" (xmldoc)) and it would return the text for the matching path

guy15:02:51

but enlive is nice too :thumbsup: hope that helps

3Jane15:02:36

enlive looks like what I hoped for

3Jane15:02:08

xpath is nice too … I just have a big xml with the significant content being unformatted, in text 😞

3Jane15:02:29

so it’s not the xml structure itself, it’s just that I need to dig several levels down to generate a collection

3Jane15:02:36

Thank you 🙂

3Jane15:02:15

> No namespaces support (hence unsuitable for most XML)

3Jane15:02:18

ok 😄 xpath!

alexlynham15:02:37

I vaguely remember having to write a helper macro last time

3Jane15:02:57

:woman-facepalming:

3Jane15:02:38

“oh these commandline utils are so inconvenient, imma make it easier, load it in a repl” 😄

alexlynham15:02:32

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL D. COHEN COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
FEBRUARY 27, 2019
Chairman Cummings, Ranking Member Jordan, and Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me here today.

I have asked this Committee to ensure that my family be protected from Presidential threats, and that the Committee be sensitive to the questions pertaining to ongoing investigations. Thank you for your help and for your understanding.
I am here under oath to correct the record, to answer the Committee's questions truthfully, and to offer the American people what I know about President Trump.
I recognize that some of you may doubt and attack me on my credibility. It is for this reason that I have incorporated into this opening statement documents that are irrefutable, and demonstrate that the information you will hear is accurate and truthful.
Never in a million years did I imagine, when I accepted a job in 2007 to work for Donald Trump, that he would one day run for President, launch a
campaign on a platform of hate and intolerance, and actually win. I regret the day I said "yes" to Mr. Trump. I regret all the help and support I gave him along the way.
I am ashamed of my own failings, and I publicly accepted responsibility for them by pleading guilty in the Southern District of New York.
I am ashamed of my weakness and misplaced loyalty -- of the things I did for Mr. Trump in an effort to protect and promote him.
I am ashamed that I chose to take part in concealing Mr. Trump's illicit acts rather than listening to my own conscience.
I am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is.
He is a racist.
He is a conman.
He is a cheat.
He was a presidential candidate who knew that Roger Stone was talking with Julian Assange about a WikiLeaks drop of Democratic National Committee emails.
I will explain each in a few moments.

😮 10
alexlynham15:02:57

I mean, it probably won’t change anything but that’s strongly worded

zyxmn16:02:33

holy shit