Fork me on GitHub
#clojure-uk
<
2016-12-09
>
agile_geek08:12:22

Much as I love going home, lugging a suitcase on and off buses is not my idea of fun

agile_geek08:12:37

Everyone else on this bus has 16 layers on and I've just taken off my coat & I'm just my t-shirt left on top half and I'm still sweating! #mildtoday

thomas08:12:07

yes, very mild here today as well.. and in the train with 10.000 other people.... very hot

thomas08:12:18

@ali_king love the bruce yeshugs interrobanghugs but nohugs should be banned...

maleghast08:12:26

Morning All...

maleghast08:12:29

I am having an unmitigated bout of homesickness + “all my problems could be solved by the availability of a handful of Clojure developers, here in Manila”. Coming on here and seeing you guys talking about hug monads has raised a smile; I thank you all 🙂

agile_geek08:12:41

@maleghast I know what you mean...although there are quite a few Clojure Dev's in London they're impossibly rare in NE England!

thomas08:12:01

@agile_geek I think that means that you are unique 😉

glenjamin08:12:30

My latest approach is telling everyone I meet at meetups they should learn clojure

glenjamin08:12:41

i figure eventually that’ll increase the numbers in the north

maleghast08:12:52

@agile_geek - I am still not yet a “proven” Clojure Dev… My Clojure is not very Clojuric, I am not transducer-capable, I know almost nothing about spec, I’ve never used datomic and my CLJS is non-existent. I need a handful of devs that are prepared to work for me to fix the problems ahead of me the best way I know how (leverage the advantages of Clojure / ClojureScript in our problem space) so that I can up my game and make my employers experience delivery joy

agile_geek09:12:27

Don't think I'm a "proven" Clojure dev either...not sure I'm a "proven" Java dev for that matter!

maleghast09:12:24

@agile_geek Welcome to the Imposter Syndrome Sufferers Support Group, or ISSSG 🙂

maleghast09:12:40

Thoughts and feelings like these are what have me up late at night learning linear algebra on Khan Academy because I don’t speak enough maths to talk to Data Scienticians

agile_geek09:12:47

"Hi I'm Chris...I've been an Imposter since I wrote my first line of code at the age of 13. I try and stay away from Programming Dojo's but they're just too seductive. My family are ashamed of me. I have massive debt from buying geeky t-shirts. I need help."

maleghast09:12:00

@glenjamin It would work on me 🙂

glenjamin09:12:24

My pitch is “even if you never use it for a proper thing, it’ll change how you think"

otfrom09:12:35

thomas as a well known hugger, I'd like to say that nohugs for someone is just fine.

glenjamin09:12:07

you know those people in the street with “free hugs” signs?

glenjamin09:12:17

Do you ever get people with “Premium Hugs” signs?

mariusz_jachimowicz09:12:11

In many cases (especially data stuff) 1 Clojure Dev = 3..5 plain Java Devs, but first you need to learn a little bit about all LEGO blocks (all functions) If you want to learn Clojure you can analyze Onyx code, you will quickly learn most usefull stuff I think

korny10:12:25

Morning! morning

korny10:12:50

last day at work - we’re booked for an induction next week, so I’m going to take leave until the baby gets here

korny10:12:02

@jonpither pity http://appear.in seems to keep breaking for us 🙂

korny10:12:50

Mind you I’ve never found a reliable remote video/screensharing system that I like. Hangouts seems to be the best at the moment, still not perfect

peterwestmacott10:12:45

we have good success with http://appear.in - 99% of the time. 1% of the time it just fails completely

maleghast11:12:02

@thomas Seriously..? You write Clojure and you don’t have parens balancing in your SQL editor now..?

maleghast11:12:16

(I am just amazed, not judging, promise)

thomas11:12:52

I have an editor that does parens balancing... in this case they were missing completely. and it was in the SQL statement (we use yesql for this)

glenjamin11:12:38

order of precedence thing?

thomas11:12:43

it was where ... and .... or ... and it should have been where ... and ( ... or ...)

thomas11:12:55

and while investigating this I found another problem that wasn't directly obvious. 🙂

otfrom12:12:37

sigh... is there no way to escape the problems of order of precedence? 😉

thomas12:12:00

@otfrom I heard there is a language out there that deals with it by making it all explicit. Can't quite remember the name though... and I have heard it is really really old, so it can't be any good I suspect.

korny13:12:19

Scala? (g,d&r)

peterwestmacott13:12:53

Scala has certainly been known to make my language explicit.

thomas13:12:12

cool stuff @jonpither , thanks for sharing!

maleghast14:12:53

Nice video @jonpither - looks exactly as I imagined it - the next one you do I will be there, geography be damned!

pradeepcheers18:12:00

New to Clojure and quite confused by the behaviour of the functions or, and when compared to other programming languages. (or false true) ;;true (or 0 1) ;;0 (and false true) ;;false (and 0 1) ;;1

seancorfield19:12:37

Hi @pradeepcheers — welcome! There’s a very helpful #beginners channel for a lot of these “starting out” questions, but I’ll just note that in Clojure we have the concepts of “truthy” and “falsey”: falsey is nil or false; truthy is everything else, including 0.

seancorfield19:12:15

And or and and just return the last argument that they need to evaluate in order to determine the result (since they are lazy and only evaluate as many arguments as they need to).

pradeepcheers19:12:30

Thanks @seancorfield. Thats making sense now 🙂

mccraigmccraig20:12:11

also worth noting that or and and are macros rather than normal functions @pradeepcheers - at some point you will find yourself wondering why some function or other is behaving weirdly, and the answer will be that it follows different rules because it's actually a macro

agile_geek20:12:13

Although the 'weird' behaviour here isn't due to it being a macro per se but more the concept that everything except nil and false are truthy.

agile_geek20:12:40

although the short circuiting is due to recursive nature of the evaluated macro code I guess.

mccraigmccraig20:12:00

(and (do (pr "nil,") nil) (do (pr "true, ") true)) illustrates the macro's control of evaluation better