hi!

howdy!

good! it's been a while...

I've been busy.

what did i miss?

how are you?

can't complain, how's everything going?

I had this weird thing happening to me. My macbook was starting to crash in a most sensational way. Like it would hang, and then there would be no readable filesystem on reboot.

I would restore from a backup, and then everything was good again

for some time

Like two weeks

then one week

every time, same story, a crash, and no readable hard drive

In the beginning, I didn't understand what was failing

was it the SSD? what is the RAM? was it a logic board failure?

Now it was happening everyday

so i ran a memtest

And I let it run for a whole night

It had found a failing region, 160MB of contiguous region

wow

I was really pissed because it's a new laptop that I like a lot

RAM is soldered

The lab would charge me for a whole logic board

then I read that on linux you can mark bad RAM in the kernel

and just run the system like normal

so I thought, yeah, that's what I need

Only problem is that Mac OS X doesn't have that.

At all

So I installed GNU/Linux on my macbook, used the memmap option on the kernel, and things work great

I lost 160MB of RAM, but for the rest it's business as usual

the escalator became stairs

that's sweet about linux, did not know

alandipert: haha, it sounds funny but I didn't get it

oh, it's a mitch hedberg joke - about what the sign on a broken escalator says

"escalator is temporarily stairs"

@danielsz: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Wear_20Evolving_20Tools#1116804115

Brilliant

Mac OS X became GNU/Linux

Or in other words XNU became GNU

I'm still not completely satisfied, there is so much tuning needed on a laptop for linux

like the touchpad

nowhere near as smoot as Mac os x

that's easily the worst thing about laptop linux afaict

the touchpad situation

oh, so it's not just me

one of my favorite things about my older-model thinkpad is the small touchpad

(and the nub)

which distribution did you go with?

I went with ubuntu

figured support would be decent

was i wrong?

i imagine so, but it's been awhile since i considered running linux on mac hardware

2-3 years ago when i last investigated seriously i was pleasantly surprised by how much documentation they had around doing it

yeah, but the problem is that you never know what release the doc you found and read is applying to

it's horrible

I was told that the Canonical folks use macbooks

but I'm disappointed

it's a very fast system

faster than mac os x

but not as stable

suspend/wake not reliable

stuff like that

I'd rather not deal with this

maybe I'll end up buying a new laptop

only there's nothing on the market right now that really excites me

alandipert: what do you run on your laptop?

i recently switched to ubuntu gnome from fedora

interesting. what was the reason for the switch?

to align myself better with the docker target market

oh

i have been doing a lot of docker things and i think ubuntu is the distro to be on... most comprehensive stackoverflow answers anyway, afaict

but, of the linux desktop things i prefer gnome

interesting

hey, I've reported a problem I've experienced with bootlaces earlier

the signing fails, but since only a NullPointerException is thrown, I don't know where to look

further

Does it ring any bells?

I'm using a signing subkey, that should be the problem, right?

hm, i haven't seen that one

we're using clj-pgp, right?

@danielsz: Arch linux is also fun 😄

danielsz: ping

micha: pong.

how are you today?

the dude abides 😎

(sounds like a Microsoft ad)

haha

good

excellent

i saw your issue re: gpg

up

yup

Have I made myself understood?

i'm not sure i fully understand

the "first key" is only in the default case if you don't specify the key

no, what you specify is the keyring

i don't really see a better default than that

you can also specify the recipient, no?

not the actual signing key

no

I mean yes

but that doesn't matter

@danielsz: Arch Linux is a great distro if you are happy to get ‘under the covers’ a bit more

in this context

ah i am missing some knowledge here

micha: yes

I'd love to explain thogh

let me try

please continue

the secret keyring is a list of key pairs

those keypairs are organized by user (email address)

each user can have multiple key pairs

if you have a default setup, you're working with the master key pair

if you have made subkeys, which is recommended, you're working with subkeys

now every keypair has roles

typically a key is used for encrypting and for signing

if you list your keys, you will see the keypairs and their roles

in a default setup, with the master keys, you should see two keys pairs,

one is used for certification and signing, the second is used for encryption

the second one is actually a subkey, generated automatically

the first one is the signing key

but that is not the recommended setup

the recommended setup is to delete the master key pair after having generated a signing subkey

that gives you all sorts of advantages

pertaining to key management, security, revocation, identity theft etc

so if you do what is recommended

when you list your keys, you will have only subkeys

but each one has a unique id, right

typically, one subkey for signing, one subkey for encryption

yes!

that's the thing: you need to pass the id of the signing key, not the secring.pgp

and you can't use the --gpg-user-id FC88D1 option to the push task?

no

oh lame

user id is the label to which the keys are arranged under

so we want to use the unique id instead of the user id

is that what you mean?

i mean you still need to specify the keyring

Yes, exactly, you need the id of the signing key. But I have an idea for redesigning the whole thing.

you might have multiple keyrings or a nonstandard setup or something

The way I envision it, you don't need the keyring unless you are not using the default

this is 1% of the cases

ok yes

~/.gnupg/secring.gpg

OK, so we need an environment variable that will enable users to point to an alternate secring, for everybody else, we go for the default

$HOME/.gnupg/secring.pgp

why not the --gpg-keyring option?

I'm just saying that you didn't need in the signatures of sign-jar, or in the gpg.edn

also i think we might want to incorporate boot-environ into boot core

we can simplify everything by removing the options in the API signatures, and create two ENV variables

ok i am believing

Oh, boot-environ is now part of environ.

I forgot to tell you

sorry

It's actually good news

you mean we don't need the boot task anymore?

sorry we just switched some things over to use boot-environ yesterday at adzerk

https://clojars.org/boot-environ

No that's great!

but i wasn't working on that part

Ah,

it doesn' matter really, the boot-environ taks has been accepted in the mother project, environ, but I still keep a separate repo.

In my repo there is an additonal option that James didn't want, but the base implementation is the same

Am I making sense?

Regarding the PGP thing, out of the top of your head, what tasks besides the push task call sign-jar?

none that i know of

signing should be a separate task i think

Maybe.

Will you be interested in a pull request? I think I know how to redesign the whole thing. But I wouldn't want to step on anyone's toes, and I also would need a little bit of guidance, probably.

sure we can queue it up for 3.0.0 if it involves breaking changes

Cool

i think as long as we maintain semantic versioning as much as possible we can make major releases without causing much strife

Sure

what is the namespace where you define environment variables?

how do you mean define?

like where we look at them?

yes

yeah there isn't a single place

there probably should be

Ah, OK

no problem. Makes it easier for me.

in boot.pod perhaps

because boot.pod is available anywhere

i'm thinking that having environ in boot itself would smooth things for tasks

So for now you just read directly with System/environment?

like tasks can use environ

yeah

Sure.

projects could use their own environment thing, no problem

i think

if they want to

boot-environ reads from the environment or from properties files and puts everything in a map on the application-level. This introduces an abstraction layer and the advantages/disadvantages associated with it.

I am not sure you need in boot-clj.

the advantage would be that you could update it at runtime

We use it mainly to separate development/production modes

via system properties

Sure, it probably would work

it's unfortunate that you can't set env vars in the jvm

not portably anyway

you need hacks

so i was thinking a layer of abstraction would be useful there

that does support runtime modification somehow

Yes, that is a use case indeed

also the env file is nice because there are some situations where you can't set env vars at all

not good places to be, but i'm sure there are situations

yeah, I cringe to be honest

Hey, you know this duplicates that you asked to close. It happened to me yesterday.

too

And I didn't do it.

But I think I know why it happens

I noticed that my touchpad on my ubuntified macbook is super-sensitive

And I think that when I press submit, it sends it twice

osx does have good trackpad drivers, i'll give them that

somehow

it's an interesting bug

that huge trackpad probably is terrible on linux

because it's github responsibility to not save twice

somehow

terrible

awful

but I haven't spent the time to configure it

my x250 has a not entirely huge trackpad, but i still need to disable it or i touch it while i'm typing

I hate wasting time on things like that, but I'll probably will have to

luckily i have the awesome trackpoint

so i just completely disable the trackpad with a fn key

Oh, really, even the thinkpad doesn't have better drivers?

you're using the nub only?

i'm using ubuntu with a 3.X.X kernel

yeah

if i don't disable the trackpad i can't type in a thing that listens to the mouse

the cursor teleports randomly all the time

Not good

i tried palm detection and whatnot

and disable while typing

but maybe i type too slow

it's not you, I mean nobody complains on Mac OS X. It makes you appreciate their efforts in refining the human machine interface

they even came up with an innovation

Forcetouch or something

which I'm not sure what it does

haha that sounds illegal

or at least frowned upon these days

"keep that guy away from the padowans"

anyway the gpg stuff sounds great

bonus if we can do it without breaking the current broken behavior

haha, yeah I hadn't seen that aspect of it, now you're mentioning I won't be able to forget it

Sure, I'll try to tackle the PGP without breaking too much asap

also if you want to add gpg encrypt/decrypt support to boot.pgp that would be awesome too 😉

i mean if you feel like it

sure. What will be the typical use case?

like encrypted data files used by tasks

OK, very cool

I'll see what I can do. It sounds like fun.

it would be interesting to be able to have encrypted resources in jars that boot would decrypt for you, perhaps

Right. Absolutely.

@danielsz, re: trackpad I remember good reports about this solution: http://askubuntu.com/questions/503843/tweak-macbook-pro-touchpad-on-ubuntu

Oh, sweet! Thank you @colin.yates

np. Ironically I came to the Mac from Linux because I couldn’t stop myself messing around with this stuff and wanted something that just works 😉

there is also Arch’s excellent documentation (even if you use Ubuntu etc.): https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MacBook

Yeah, it is ironical. I would switch back in a heartbeat as well. I'll try to make the most of this turn of events. Maybe I should give StumpMW a try. I've always fancied the idea of having a Lisp runtime managing windows, with all the REPL goodness that comes with it. We'll see how that works out.

have you tried tiling window managers (xmonad, i3 etc.?) If you can get used to them they rock.

ah I see StumpWM is a tiling manager - in Lisp - nice

i3 took about 30 minutes to set up and a day or so to get used to, i'm syncing my configs across linux boxes now.

I started with XMonad, spent a bunch of time getting it working for floating windows (skype etc.), never quite managed it, installed i3 and 10 minutes later I was flying.

it really helps keep flow when doing frontend work and switching a lot

(kinda like emacs -> Cursive ;-))

i only mouse for chrome

I even tried to live with the emacs www browser , terminal PDF reader etc. It wasn’t great

i only wish I could easily get emacs integrated with it

there are some projects to force splits as frames but i don't know if it's worth it

you can go crazy with this stuff, particularly if you then throw in screen or tmux - talk about yak shaving. I do still see the occasional Youtube video of some school kid who has optimised the heck out of their environment and feel a bit jealous. But then I embrace the mouse and get on with real work. Too old for this stuff now

the other thing I did find though was that moving to the macbook pro with the touchpad was far more efficient than a traditional mouse. I would be lost without my three finger swiping between spaces etc.

(I think we have hijacked this discussion in boot - let’s continue in #C03RZGPG1/#off-topic)

exactly, that's what I want. I heard people raving for i3.

Do you have it as an alternate windows manager? Do you run it exclusively or next to a mainstream one, like Gnome or Unity?

oh, sorry

about the topic, switching

Lenovo told be me a T450 update is coming in next few weeks (T450p hopefully \o/)

got my 16G memory stick yesterday!

need a very tiny screwdriver now lol

Nice. They are selling T450s with 20GB option now.

aweosme yeah

(Not on EU though...)

the lenovo site has a 1600MHz 16G chip for sale

which i didn't see until after i ordered the 1333 one

i'm sureit will still rule

Note still quite sure if I even want the p model, it might be 600g heavier than t450s. But quad-core would be nice.

Lol, I can't see all the messages since I last read the channel

is there something like :refer-clojure :exclude for build.boot files?

for removing noise when natural task names clobber more exotic clojure builtins

eg. test

@crisptrutski: you could use ns-unmap to do it dynamically

e.g. https://github.com/adzerk-oss/boot-test/blob/master/src/adzerk/boot_test.clj#L33

thanks your bootiness 🥥

hehe no prob