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2015-07-15
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grounded_sage04:07:28

Can anyone suggest a good book or talk which shows the differences/ pros and cons of database designs such as sql, nosql, graph etc.

jkc04:07:19

7 databases in 7 weeks

grounded_sage07:07:34

@jkc: cheers looks like a good book.

agile_geek07:07:18

@grounded_sage: if you just want a really high level view that doesn’t take long to read/absorb “NoSQL Distilled”. I have 7 databases in 7 weeks and that’s good too but in more depth.

grounded_sage07:07:11

Ok. I'm still new to programming. Started six months ago and picking it all up in my spare time. Getting a rough idea of the programming landscape. Have pretty much settled on using JavaScript and Clojure/Script. But databases and the differences are still confusing to me. Cc @agile_geek

agile_geek07:07:53

So either book would be good “7 Databases..” is a bit more hands on.

agile_geek07:07:43

@grounded_sage: Just interested to know what led you to pick Clojure/ClojureScript? Not a common choice.

grounded_sage08:07:47

Functional and immutable programming appears to be a common interest/preference especially for the future of programming. Lisp has a deep history and has high flexibility. JVM is an enterprise standard choice with stable libraries and JavaScript is growing wildly in popularity. Clojure sits nicely across all of these. Though I would say the biggest draw card is the community. All the top programmers/influencers I follow either use or praise Clojure. I also feel learning programming is easier with clojure. Fresher language with less deprecated/obsolete parts. Using a lot of concepts which other languages are using planning to use and those concepts are expressed more simply and easier to understand with Clojure. @agile_geek

henrik10:07:49

Is it possible to destructure a record?

tcrayford10:07:30

just treat it like a map

ivanreese10:07:09

Is there a good channel here to discuss programming language design, in comparison to Clojure? At the risk of skewing off-topic, I really enjoyed this post, and was curious to see how people felt CLJ(S) stacked up against it.

ivanreese10:07:27

Some things are easy. REPL? Check!

ivanreese10:07:45

Some things are nuanced and would be worth debating, to see if there's any room-for-improvement grass for us to chew and digest into new libraries, say.

henrik11:07:44

@tcrayford, cheers, I was doing list destructuring for some reason

danielsz16:07:55

@gtrak: Is i3 your main wm?

danielsz16:07:32

@gtrak: Maybe you open a virtual console and start it next to Gnome or Unity?

danielsz16:07:55

@colin.yates: and you?

colin.yates16:07:38

@danielsz: I would give up trying to get anything working with Unity. I found it worked best to have i3wm as the WM, something like dmenu as the app launcher (brilliant) and a very very lightweight menu bar at the top showing workspaces etc.

colin.yates16:07:44

OOTB iw3m was sufficient for me.

colin.yates16:07:06

Gnome3 is also too opinionated on how things should work.

colin.yates16:07:48

If you want a desktop environment with a tiling window manager then I would suggest either KDE4 (maybe 5, don’t know) with the kwindow tiling extension or xfwm with something like i3wm

colin.yates16:07:24

but it always felt like an incompatible coupling. fvwm was probably the least jarring

colin.yates16:07:34

i3wm by itself though was where I ended up

danielsz16:07:57

Interesting. How long did you carry with it?

danielsz16:07:11

Until you got fed up and switched to Mac Os X?

colin.yates16:07:37

I spent probably 4 years in a tiling window manager without a mouse where possible

colin.yates16:07:15

but I was a degenerate Distro Hopper so every month or so I went through a process of ‘start again, I really will get this tweaked to my liking, nope, give up, get some work done, and repeat’.

colin.yates16:07:34

debian, ubuntu, Mint, Arch etc. were regularly on my machine.

colin.yates16:07:44

Doing it now I would go with Arch and i3wm

danielsz16:07:52

Do you miss it?

colin.yates16:07:58

I have been in Yosemite now for a couple of years

danielsz16:07:17

What a transition!

danielsz16:07:32

Very interesting. How does it feel?

colin.yates16:07:57

I do, but I know the time lost in any inefficiency in Yosmite is far less than the time I spent tweaking my environment - you can’t tweak OSx really simple_smile

colin.yates16:07:20

But yes, I am left with a ‘I tried, and failed’ deep in my soul 😉

danielsz16:07:19

I'm really on the fence with that. Maybe it's not a failing at all, maybe you succeeded in overcoming your drive to tweak like there's no tomorrow

danielsz16:07:35

Which psychologists I guess will characterize as infantile simple_smile

danielsz16:07:49

So you're a real adult now. simple_smile

colin.yates16:07:00

Turning 40 had something to do with it!

colin.yates16:07:29

In all seriousness though, I couldn’t do it with a traditional mouse. It is only because the trackpad is so near the keyboard and the gestures are great.

danielsz16:07:51

Interesting. 👍

danielsz16:07:19

I'll let you know how I fare.

colin.yates16:07:38

great stuff @danielsz - I look forward to it

cfleming16:07:10

I remember the feeling when I switched from Linux to OSX - I was like: what am I going to do with all this spare time?

akiva16:07:01

Hah, that’s the same thing I went through when I finally gave up on Linux as a desktop machine and installed Windows. This was back in, uh, 2000 or so, though. I’m sure Linux has come a long way since then.

colin.yates16:07:22

@cfleming: it’s silly, but one of the reasons I switched was the beautiful screenshots of Cursive in IntelliJ, until that moment IntelliJ in Linux was a bit of a beast.

colin.yates16:07:52

@akiva - you just lost a bunch of tech cred 😉. I will use Windows when they give me a console that I can resize and copy and paste into 😉

cfleming16:07:06

Yeah, Java on Linux desktop still has some issues.

akiva16:07:36

Hah, at the time I was tired to death of constantly fussing with the OS and all I had was PC hardware and Macs had yet to switch to Intel.

cfleming16:07:38

Although Oracle are doing their best to make Java on OSX desktop just as bad.

cfleming16:07:12

@colin.yates: I’m actually about to re-vamp the doc with Retina screenshots for maximum purtiness

cfleming16:07:33

And, you know, also finish the actual doc while I’m at it.

colin.yates16:07:59

I spend the first few days just looking (and maybe slightly drooling) at my 15” retina macbook pro.

colin.yates16:07:30

s/spend/spent

akiva16:07:27

I’m buying one of those next month. My little MacBook Air is spent.

colin.yates16:07:10

I bought an Apple refurbished 15 (yep, 14 + 1) days before the new ones were released. Doh.

colin.yates16:07:23

guess what Apple’s return policy duration is….

akiva16:07:32

(Oh, and I’ve been Mac since 2006 or so. I BootCamp to Windows just to play games.)

akiva16:07:52

[desperately trying to reclaim that cred]

colin.yates16:07:37

until I bought this one I had a 15” 2008 with upgraded RAM and SSD - it flew. Copied magnificently with my lein garden auto, lein test-refresh, lein cljx auto, lein figwheel, lein repl and Cursive.

colin.yates16:07:08

s/Copied/Coped (why can’t I spell today!)

akiva16:07:21

I have an ’08 MacPro with 17 gigs of RAM and an upgraded video card and a 24” Cinema Display… in storage. [sobs]

cfleming16:07:33

@colin.yates: This is a new-fangled chat thing, you can hit up to edit your last message

colin.yates16:07:53

Thanks for the tip!

akiva16:07:07

@cfleming: Neat. I've just been clicking the cog and choosing Edit.

colin.yates16:07:31

17 gigs? What does that look like?

akiva16:07:42

You can’t look directly at it or you lose 1 point of Sanity.

akiva16:07:03

I have no idea how it came out that way. I kind Frankenstein’d some RAM and ended up there.

akiva16:07:16

Runs like a champ. Nary a hiccup.

colin.yates16:07:43

was that the really nice Silver Box design? They do know how to make Hardware those Apple dudes

akiva17:07:13

Yep. First box I ever dug into where it was a pleasure to work with.

akiva17:07:40

Everything slides out on little trays, etc.

colin.yates17:07:59

yeah, they were great.

colin.yates17:07:31

Another +1 for OSx is the Photos app, me, my wife and the kids Apple devices all share the same account and we use iCloud for photos. Take a photo and it is immediately uploaded and if it starts running out of space it will delete the local copy automatically. No more faffing around with syncing devices and a never ending process of ‘yeah, I must organise these photos, for now let’s just download them into ‘TODO’’. I had 64 GBs of photos in hundreds of “TODO” folders!

colin.yates17:07:36

I open up the Photos app and regularly see the new photos and videos appear magically - it’s pretty neat engineering. Engineering provides convenience, the way it should be.

shaun-mahood21:07:46

@clojuregeek: How responsive is it? I had clojure running pretty well on emacs with a super old laptop, but once I started using Cursive that kind of lost it's appeal.

clojuregeek21:07:08

Hmm, I don’t know about cursive. I use emacs only.

dnolen21:07:59

@shaun-mahood: I use Cursive on a new Macbook which is about as fast as an iPad 2

dnolen21:07:25

turning on IntelliJ Power Save mode can make a big difference

shaun-mahood21:07:34

@clojuregeek: Sorry, I meant how fast is it with emacs? Any huge differences in usability from a faster machine?

shaun-mahood21:07:02

@dnolen: Oh cool, I'll try that.

clojuregeek21:07:29

oh it seems good, I use the terminal based emacs not the gui

dnolen21:07:16

Still a bit laggier than Emacs but liveable

shaun-mahood21:07:56

Do you lose any nice cursive features with power save on?

dnolen21:07:24

Auto updating inspections and auto complete menu

dnolen21:07:49

Can still open the autocomplete menu with keystroke of course

shaun-mahood21:07:07

Oh cool. I find that half the time with the autocomplete I'm amazed at how it figured out what I wanted to type, especially with a bunch of namespaces. You starting to present with it convinced me to start using it for real.

emil0r21:07:47

isn't it problematic to use cursive on a laptop with how much space the IDE takes up? tried to make it work, but the lack of space due to no external monitor was too much of a problem for me

emil0r21:07:16

or are there configuration options that make it liveable?

dnolen21:07:37

@emil0r: yeah pretty easy to eliminate all the stuff and get an Emacs like experience.

emil0r21:07:31

is it possible to have multiple repls? one for clojure and one for clojurescript? with emacs i've just resolved to having two instances of emacs running

dnolen21:07:43

@emil0r: yep

emil0r21:07:25

and multiple projects running or do you need to close the project you're running and then open up the other?

dnolen21:07:34

multiple projects

emil0r21:07:46

right... need to take a second look then

cfleming21:07:01

I’ll just get on with my day while dnolen answers my questions for me.

magnars22:07:24

@emil0r: you can have multiple repls running in emacs as well - there's even this recent development https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/1195 - where you open a clj and a cljs repl for the same project with one command, and CIDER knows they are for the same project

emil0r22:07:05

i know. just never got it to work

magnars22:07:17

if you tried like a year ago, the support wasn't exactly stellar, but doesn't seem like there are any issues with it now, for me at least. Maybe you should give it another go. simple_smile

malabarba23:07:10

@emil0r: "recent development" means literally a week ago. So might be worth trying again. simple_smile