I remember seeing this book but never got round to reading it https://pragprog.com/book/trevan/driving-technical-change

Humm... reviews on that book arent great... but it did lead me to a youtube video about "Fearless Change" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47r6Z-Bg2lc This might lead to something good.

Cat on keyboard?

I enjoyed this (non-Clojure talk) recently: http://longnow.org/seminars/02017/aug/07/seeing-whole-systems/

this talk is good if you want to know how nation-state-level hacking is done (eg. when Russians hack the DNC or US hacks Iran or whatever) - the nuts and bolts of how the orgs are really run and what their operating parameters are.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wP2J9aYM6Oo

@U051SS2EU you got me at the title

@U064X3EF3 thank you!

Thank you! 🙂

I didn't like the bit about, "Do you have an error message you don't understand, do all this extra work to understand it". I feel like meaningful errors should be first class and not something left up to the user. Granted it's on top of java, but why were all his solutions not something native to the language. Elm spoils you in that regard

I think that example loses some of its impact because that particular error is easy to understand and fairly obvious to spot by looking at the code. The point is that this is a pretty mechanical process for identifying any point of failure in any (complex) code.

true, But many beginners won't know how to tackle debugging with a clojure repl, at least based on the beginner material I've been reading, when they're staring down the barrell of a 12 line cryptic stack trace

most people only skim the surface when talking about the repl in the books I've read, which is a shame if it is used as the silver bullet of clojure. I feel it should be just as important as any other part of the language. It should be re-introduced throughout most reading material and examples

I agree. Workflows based on the REPL -- the way Stu uses it -- should be much more prominent in all teaching material but I think there's a lot of "Crack open a REPL and just start typing code" out there for historical reasons. Workflows that focus on writing code in an editor and evaluating forms as you go (via an attached REPL) have been hampered by some of the tooling that was out there (at least, among beginner-friendly tools). That situation is much-improved of late.

Elm uses a language that abstracts the runtime fully, and fundamentally that is not something clojure aims to do, and it would be easier to make a new lisp from scratch than to change that aspect of clojure.

oh I didn't doubt the difficulty or possibility, I just find that out of all the languages I've ever learned, Elm stands out as the one that got the most annoying aspect of every language before correct. I still prefer everything else about clojure though, so it's a big improvement on most languages I've learned

I did enjoy how he adequately described the state I persistently find myself in with javascript as a "fugue state"