Clojurians
#hoplon
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2015-09-09
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alandipert00:09:06

@xifi: very nice!

onetom01:09:43

if i get back a HTTP/500 error from castra, what's the best way to print the exception?

onetom01:09:00

i'd like to see the stack trace somewhere (probably in the js console)

micha03:09:59

@onetom one sec

micha03:09:34

rpc-opts is passed to mkremote etc

alandipert11:09:11

a nice survey of all the problems we don't have :simple_smile:

donmullen12:09:57

@alandipert: Indeed - I pointed Venantius at boot, Deraen’s saapas project, and Martin’s tenzing project — hopefully he’ll take a look!

onetom12:09:03

@donmullen: where did u point him to boot, saapas, tenzing? i cant see anything from u on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10186487

donmullen13:09:42

@onetom: It was in the #C03S1L9DN slack channel.

donmullen13:09:17

Worth posting on the HN thread though!

xifi13:09:24

@alandipert: do you plan on doing some hunting for more clj(s) users? I feel like React and their cljs improvements are becoming rather strong in the community

xifi13:09:54

i.e. it seems to me like hoplon will soon become the niche in the niche

alandipert13:09:08

@xifi: we are gearing up for a "re-launch" of hoplon, with a new logo, look, talks, blog posts etc. and better docs

xifi13:09:29

@alandipert: cool. Any timeline or estimate on that?

alandipert13:09:09

before the end of the year, currently we are using hoplon for a big work project and want that behind us before we go around saying how awesome it is :simple_smile:

xifi13:09:28

should be soon imho. People won't bother learning new (old) frameworks after they already spent months learning react's om or reagent

alandipert13:09:07

i mean, we haven't been especially secretive - we've given 1-2 talks a year on some part of it for many years now

alandipert13:09:23

so part of the problem is, figuring out what we're doing wrong

alandipert13:09:32

as far as messaging and explaining

xifi13:09:10

the first thing that comes to my mind is - backer. Adzerk may be well known, but it's no facebook (React) or Mozilla (Rust)

alandipert13:09:12

because it seems to be missing the attention fo exactly the people who we would expect to find it useful

xifi13:09:45

I wonder what is the solution :simple_smile: Take Rust, it deliver great promises and is backed by Mozilla. Then take Nim, another interesting, albeit not that polished language that became more known at the same time, backed by 1 small company.

alandipert13:09:31

one of the things encumbering our messaging but i think that will pay of in the future is, we try hard to avoid exaggeration or grandiosity

xifi13:09:01

that's bad marketing! :smile:

alandipert13:09:17

maybe :simple_smile:

xifi13:09:19

lure them in, make them use it, then shut the doors!

xifi13:09:32

just kidding of course

alandipert13:09:42

well i think it's coming close to time to be louder

alandipert13:09:55

in a year or two when react has faded and web components have not yet arrived

xifi13:09:19

react will fade? are you sure?

alandipert13:09:00

not that it will fade, but it loses meaning every time someone makes a wrapper or gives a talk about what they think flux is

alandipert13:09:11

this is the downside of grandiose marketing

alandipert13:09:56

the evolution of the word "react" reminds me of "ajax" or "web 2.0"

alandipert13:09:29

in a year or two i think react will refer more to a time and common attitude than a particular piece of technology

alandipert13:09:17

my theory, anyway

xifi13:09:25

I'm new in this stack, but isn't AJAX still used everywhere?

alandipert13:09:41

several years ago it meant a lot more though, it was a buzzword, added to every book title and blog post

donmullen13:09:56

@onetom: upvoted!

alandipert13:09:07

@onetom: wow what an incredible survey!

onetom13:09:27

really? :simple_smile: thx

xifi13:09:56

@alandipert: still not sure I understand though, wouldn't you like hoplon to be as well known as those buzzwords?

xifi13:09:31

not to be a buzzword, just the general acceptance part

alandipert13:09:26

i am not sure if it's good to be very popular

alandipert13:09:43

as backers, mozilla and rust are selling platforms and benefit when people buy in completely

alandipert13:09:20

but me and micha as independent programmers ourselves are less interested in locking people in and more interested in help

alandipert13:09:46

maybe it will change some day but i enjoy programming and creating much more than evangelizing

onetom13:09:06

@xifi: if someone tries hoplon after doing react in any form, i think there is no need for any further explanation... if they still think they are more effective with react and several times more code, then just let them waste their lifetime on it...

xifi13:09:44

@onetom: of course. I'm only concerned regarding general headcount. It doesn't matter if hoplon is or isn't the most popular, but the numbers here are quite low. More people make more libraries and projects, try more things, find more bugs etc. They don't need to be millions though

onetom13:09:20

there should be a hoplon-native to complete the story :wink:

alandipert13:09:30

@xifi: i agree, it would be good to have more people... hopefully a fresh look will help

xifi13:09:27

@onetom: might be a stupid question but isn't electron usable for that?

xifi13:09:46

@alandipert: I'm not even sure how I got here :smile:

xifi13:09:14

probably a random web search showed http://hoplon.io

onetom13:09:47

@xifi: don't know about electron but i just downloaded https://github.com/black-screen/black-screen the other day and couldnt even compile it. i can't really get excited about bloatware anymore easily...

onetom13:09:51

@xifi: not to be racist, but it must be the hungarian blood... micha has some hungarian connections too :wink: imean thats how u ended up here

micha14:09:51

My grandmother was Hungarian:)

micha14:09:18

Grandfather was from Belarus

micha14:09:12

I guess it was called white Russia back then

xifi14:09:58

@micha: yes your name doesn't sound very Hungarian

xifi14:09:11

Slavic, yes

micha14:09:47

Jewish too which probably is relevant for names

xifi14:09:40

indeed, judging from your name I thought you're Russian. Then when I heard your English in the hoplon talk you guys have linked on http://hoplon.io I realized you are probably native American, right :simple_smile:

xifi14:09:00

and onetom sure sounds (and looks) Hungarian

onetom14:09:39

xifi: sounds? where have you heard me talking?

xifi14:09:25

wrong wording, your profile name sounds

xifi14:09:59

@micha: btw waiting on those workshops :stuck_out_tongue: