FWIW I use it.

that's widespread enough, thanks 🙂

https://github.com/daveray/seesaw

Addition to @U0JUR9FPH, if you want React like virtual dom functionality you could check fork of seesaw (I wrote); https://github.com/ertugrulcetin/seesaw

I've used seesaw for a school assignment. cljfx is the way to go for "real" or "good" apps, but seesaw has a better chance of running on a random JVM

https://github.com/cljfx/cljfx see also #cljfx

Depends on how you escape-quote

right, so, if it’s inside a syntax quoted section (i.e. backtick), then it ends up as part of the expansion (not evaluated), so it seems fairly obvious that in that case the fn is not even called at definition time, right?

Correct. Only unquoted (~) forms are evaluated at macroexpansion time. Now when we get into nested quoting/unquoting… :)

not only unquoted, but also forms appearing before the first backtick, right?

like if you have something along these lines:

(defmacro something [& rest]
  (let [foo (my-fn (first rest))]
    ...

then my-fn is invoked with the first item from the macro arg list, which is an unevaluated symbol, I believe

so the real question is, does my-fn receive it as an unevaluated symbol as well? or does it evaluate?

It can't evaluate, that code happens at macroexpansion time, my-fn receives unevaluated form or symbol or literal, whatever was passed in.

thank you! when you put it that way, it makes perfect sense

@U0183EZCD0D “not only unquoted, but also forms appearing before the first backtick” Absolutely, and a fun homoiconic trick is to add debug print statements in such code to see what is going on, especially with more elaborate/destructured macro params. Nice learning aid as I was getting up to speed on macrology.

yeah I have definitely made use of that. glad to hear there isn’t an obvious better way to debug macros 😂

as in, errors even during macroexpand

Yes! in fact, I know this for some insane reasons

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/management/RuntimeMXBean.html

it is in RuntimeMXBean

(-> (ManagementFactory/getRuntimeMXBean)
    (.getUptime)
    (Duration/ofMillis))

and before you ask I have no clue what an MXBean is

Thanks I’ll mess around with this. This looks like what I was trying to achieve, the uptime of the current runtime!

Yeah the "idiomatic" part is just dealing with Duration objects instead of the long for any logic

I see. I’m fairly new to clojure. So I don’t know too much on the java ‘libraries’… Do I need to require a certain namespace to use ManagementFactory?

you need to import the class

are you running in a repl or do you have a file with a ns at the top?

ns at the top

okay add

(ns whatever
  (:require [] ...)
  (:import (java.lang.management ManagementFactory)))

damn didn’t know you can do that! I guess thats one of the beauties of Clojure. So whatever is in the Oracle docs thats java, I can import and use that?

I really appreciate your help tonight! I can move forward and run with this!

yeah, all of clojure maps to the "java metaphysics" in some way

and you can import and use any classes you want

though certain things will be easier than others - "spring-like" stuff with annotations or stuff that reflectively calls constructors can be a pain

I’ve just been using the core library, and its all that I’ve needed so far. But now its a whole new world! lol