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#clojure-europe
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2022-02-03
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dharrigan05:02:29

Good Morning!

1
seancorfield06:02:49

Mornin' Europe 🙂

pez07:02:01

Morning!

simongray08:02:11

You know that feeling when someone wants to book yet another meeting with you where 6 different non-technical people (mostly boomers) want to discuss how the hypothetical user interface of the web app you’re building should really work…

raymcdermott14:02:13

#notAllBoomers 😂 :white_haired_person::skin-tone-3:

simongray15:02:24

Sorry, I know I shouldn’t generalise. My dad is a boomer and he is (was) a programmer too ;-)

😎 1
simongray08:02:40

these people are researchers who have actual expertise in linguistics who could do something valuable with it, but they insist on using their precious time to delay my work. It’s the definition of bikeshedding.

💯 1
bbss09:02:57

Sounds frustrating. Maybe you can forward them to something like figma or framer and have them communicate a more fully fleshed out UI/UX?

simongray09:02:19

No, they should not be involved at all

simongray09:02:25

they should deliver me some content, that is their job, not backseat driving my job.

💯 1
simongray09:02:01

besides, I dont’ use figma or any tool like that. I am a full-stack one-mand-band.

😄 1
thomas09:02:09

maybe you can present them with a design and just say this is how it is going to work?

👍 1
raymcdermott10:02:26

Good morning

😍 11
mccraigmccraig10:02:31

that looks much nicer than my morning pic

3
simongray12:02:03
replied to a thread:

It is usually quite liberating to be in charge of literally everything, but when third parties want to micromanage you while you’re doing your work it quickly becomes stressful, since you suddenly go from 0 managers to N. As for being an actual one-man band… I’m sure they would feel stressed being in a similar situation 😛

lread13:02:18

Good morning!

potetm13:02:34

If they’re the ones who will be using that app, I would think their input would be extremely valuable.

potetm13:02:57

(If they truly are a 3rd, unrelated party, I would probably consider just saying, “no.“)

potetm14:02:12

Even if they’re poor at communicated about the app, I would think they would have a ton of nuggets of information to dig out.

orestis14:02:29

"I'll take your input into consideration" can sometimes work wonders 😄

simongray15:02:11

They are free to email me their input (and believe me they do). It’s having to physically attend meetings for several hours at a time solely devoted to bikeshedding my work that I’m trying to avoid 😅

💯 1
orestis14:02:16

Any suggestions for an InfoSec company for pentests and such? I've been recommended HackerOne but it's the first time I can't make a sales person talk to me 🤷

Jakub Holý (HolyJak)16:02:53

We use HackerOne. I am not sure I would call them pentest company. If I understand it correctly, they just enable hackers to try to break your app. They don't do an organized pentest where they would scan your app for vulnerabilities and such. But I am not really involved in that. Still useful for us.

Jakub Holý (HolyJak)16:02:46

@U07QKGF9P might help you out - listen to podcasts with him here https://clojurescriptpodcast.com/

RAMart16:02:24

@U7PBP4UVA I can throw in https://www.redteam-pentesting.de/en/-seeing-your-network-from-the-attackers-perspective (located in Germany). They don't have the fanciest Website, but they do find security issues in apps (web, desktop and mobile).

mccraigmccraig09:02:58

we've been using sec-1, which got bought out by clara and is now rebranded "claranet cyber security" - we've been happy with them

dharrigan15:02:09

Is there a limitation on the lcoation of the pen testing company?

orestis15:02:32

Would be good to be in EU I guess.

dharrigan15:02:00

I guess that rules out the UK?

orestis15:02:17

I don't really know, I'll have to ask our compliance people. If you have recommendations I wouldn't object

dharrigan16:02:28

I can't recall off the top of my head the name of the company that we have used in the past, but I've asked someone - waiting on their reply.

dharrigan16:02:06

Their reply

dharrigan16:02:30

If that is no use, the CREST website has a list of accredited members

orestis16:02:44

Thanks, I will reach out to them. Much appreciated!

dharrigan15:02:28

Some companies will only use those that are in the same geographic area (for legal reasons)

simongray15:02:17

@potetm Their input is surely valuable, but they have had 2 years to provide me with input and settle requirements. Now I only have time left to implement. There is little value in being called into yet another meeting where they can further bikeshed my work. It’s a question of priorities and scheduling. They don’t understand that I can’t both crunch to finish things in time and also redevelop minor stuff all the time.

potetm15:02:13

I realize I’m very ignorant about your situation, but offhand it seems like the problem might be the projected timeline, and your frustration about meetings is a symptom.

potetm15:02:40

> They don’t understand that I can’t both crunch to finish things in time and also redevelop minor stuff all the time Right, there’s an understanding gap.

simongray15:02:49

The timeline is an issue, but it’s also a case of the others in the group being linguists and several of them 70+ years old

simongray15:02:44

I’m not embedded into a Scrum team or anything like that. It’s just me and this group of linguists.

potetm15:02:05

I dunno. I love the tangents old people go on — hearing their stories, confusion with modern stuff.

potetm15:02:24

I know you’re trying to work, and I’m not being helpful. 😞

simongray15:02:53

hahaha… this group spends hours in the meetings that are supposedly about the UI discussing the intricacies of various pieces of archival material about Danish linguists from the 1930s. They’re serious nerds about this stuff. I love hearing all this stuff too. It’s just when that they don’t want to treat this like a software project even thought the only delivery is a piece of software.

lol 1
potetm15:02:31

Really, my only helpful question is: Would you be stressed if there was a mutual understanding that these conversations are good and they cost money and time?

potetm15:02:18

Do you think, if they understood, they might say, “Well. Fine! Take more time!“?

simongray15:02:16

It doesn’t work like that in academia. The money and the deadlines are fixed.

simongray15:02:27

I would certainly prefer to have a UX designer serving as a middleman to mediate user input vs. technical feasibility… but there is no money for that.

potetm15:02:40

lol somehow I missed that this was in a university setting

potetm15:02:45

yeah, okay I get the frustration now

potetm15:02:17

these people aren’t paying the bill, but they’re the de facto “product managers”

simongray15:02:52

They’re de jure PMs, they’re de facto just annoying

lol 2
simongray15:02:38

They have literally no leverage. I am the only one who can make the delivery since I am the only developer on this project.

potetm15:02:59

Right. That’s kind of hilarious tbh.

potetm15:02:02

It’s like a sitcom.

simongray15:02:52

It’s fine, just some days the amount of micromanagement and/or lack of encouragement can be a bit of a downer. There is very little recognition of the work I have done since no one here understands what it is I do. But then weeks go by at a time where I am basically just doing my own thing with no stand-ups or anything like that to interfere and then it’s kinda nice.

simongray15:02:11

They are free to email me their input (and believe me they do). It’s having to physically attend meetings for several hours at a time solely devoted to bikeshedding my work that I’m trying to avoid 😅

💯 1
orestis15:02:56

Surely there's a Danish proverb you can use to explain that? 😅

😁 1
orestis16:02:59

I can offer a Greek one: where the many roosters sing, the dawn is late… or something along those lines 🐓🌅

simongray16:02:39

“For mange kokke fordærver maden” - too many cooks will spoil the food

1
ordnungswidrig23:02:34

“Viele Köche verderben den Brei” - many cooks will spoil the mash

ordnungswidrig23:02:35

“Schuster bleib bei deinem Leisten” - cobbler, stay at your stretcher.

simongray07:02:36

Similar one in Danish, but about shoemakers: “skomager, bliv ved din læst”

thomas09:02:13

Schoenmaker, blijf bij je leest :flag-nl: