no, but that's what boot.sh is

not to say that we couldn't all use something like that tho - boot.sh just runs a minimal java program that downloads the rest of boot from maven

and so is able to update most of itself easily, but is not self-contained

@dave have you seen http://launch4j.sourceforge.net/ ?

it's how we make the windows boot executable

aha - that could be super useful

a task around that, combined with the existing uber task, could be dope

i'm curious how you handle updates with boot.sh -- what happens when you run boot -u?

the idea is to manually manage or use your system's pkg manager to manage boot.sh

then boot.sh manages the version of boot core, the stuff from maven

boot -u updates core but not boot.sh

i think we're doing something similar with alda -- the alda launch script is just a boot script which loads the dependency [alda "LATEST"] and then passes any command line args to the alda.cli/-main method

i'm not sure we want to automatically update, though -- might move to manual updates, for more flexibility

(so we're not forcing updates on people)

with alda it seems like it might make more sense to forego boot at runtime.. like use boot to construct a jar that is boot-free and has all deps

otherwise you pay boot startup time which is a little slower than just clojure, because it starts up pod pools

yeah! i had that thought

it's also a better user experience, since we're trying to make this as easy as possible for beginners -- not having to install boot first would be a big win

we've had a bunch of github issues raised by people running into boot-related issues -- the kinds of things regular clojure/jvm users are used to (having a recent enough JDK, heap space issues, etc.), but which are not as intuitive for people who just want to download alda and go

i think i'll look into writing a boot task that pairs with the uber task to create standalone executables

@dave: https://github.com/adzerk-oss/boot-ubermain is another thing to investigaet

is there an advantage to not AOT-compiling? the lein-bin task in particular requires that you AOT the main class

that's something boot-ubermain avoids

i wrote a java shim that dynamically loads clojure

the advantage to not doing it is AOT makes for all kinds of weird bugs

https://github.com/adzerk-oss/boot-ubermain/blob/master/java/adzerk/MainSploder.java does the same thing that a servlet container would do, in that it adds jars in the jar to the classpath and calls an entrypoint

@juhoteperi: I'm not the original author of lein-generate, though I do use it for Cursive. Would be great for it to be part of Boot. On my machine I called it lein-project as that was easier for me to remember since I always think "oh, I need a lein project.clj file for cursive..."

@dave: this goes pretty far:

boot -d boot/base:2.2.0 -d boot/core:2.2.0 -d org.clojure/clojure:1.7.0 -d alda:LATEST -d adzerk/boot-ubermain:1.0.0-SNAPSHOT ubermain -m alda.cli/-main

the ubermain task is flawed in that the resulting jar doesn't have pods/dynamic dep support... and you're using merge-env to pull in fluid r3. if you don't do that -- and set fluidr3 as a dep in the alda build.boot -- i think ubermain could do what you want

ah, i didn't think about dynamic dep support

yeah the ubermain makes a jar that starts in kind of a crippled environment

not the full boot environment, but you can work around it i bet

and with a standalone jar you can use all the existing java tooling to make .exe, etc

@dave: https://gist.github.com/alandipert/bee3a5a2b71ee0b2312b full usage

nice!

this definitely gets me halfway there

Re lein-generate I think there is a link to a gist at the bottom from where I copied most of it. Later on I made some small modifications.

Can boot use latest version for dependency when not specify dependency version? such as gem of ruby

isaac: yes, you can use "RELEASE" version

for latest release

or a version range, like "(0,)" to include snapshots etc

you never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to release artifacts with these kinds of dependencies though

you can use that for development though

@micha thanks, I got it

eg. boot -Bd adzerk/bootlaces show -u

the -d option will use RELEASE if you don't specify a version

lein can do this?

probably

usually you use snapshot versions for this

i never specify RELEASE or anything

i just make a SNAPSHOT release if i need to

what are you needing to do?

some time, I want write some test code quickly

how do you mean?

oh like just load something in a repl

?

with the latest version of some dependency so you can fiddle around?

yes, your are right, I’m testing reagent now

i'd use the -d option for that

to boot itself

you don't need a build.boot file or anything

boot -r src -d org.clojure/clojurescript -d adzerk/boot-cljs -d reagent repl

I was started repl already, I want to add some dependencies

or something like that

yeah at the repl you can add them with the RELEASE version

(set-env! :dependencies '[[something/reagent "RELEASE"]])

you'll get the latest release version

a little trick to see what the latest version is you can do:

boot -d some/dependency show -u

that will show the latest version of some/dependency

Is set-env! for :dependencies will concat to dependencies?

instead of replace

no it will overwrite

but remember that :dependencies only matters when you're making a pom.xml

if you care what's in there you can do like this

(set-env! :dependencies #(conj % '[some/dep "1.2.3"]))

or like this

(merge-env! :dependencies '[[some/dep "1.2.3"]])

merge-env! will do the right thing depending on the key

nice

it is not possible to remove a jar from the classpath once it's been added

so removing it from :dependencies doesn't actually remove it from the JVM

there is no way to do that

we have pods for that

if you need to load and unload dependencies

Can remove dependency from the JVM by remove it before require it

classloaders don't support removing a jar

once you add a url to the classloader it's there for good

and it will resolve classes from the jar

until you close the classloader

I see

i suppose you could write your own classloader but it would be fraught because objects could exist that were created from bytecode in the jar

seems like you'd need to be a real classloader expert to do it correctly

thanks,

Hi there fine folks!

I'm trying to get boot-cljs to output to a different file

is there a setting for that?

hi ericnormand!

are you using a .cljs.edn file to tell it how to build?

no

was working from the boot-cljs-example

that's how i would recommend, you can then eliminate pretty much all :compiler-options

I'm actually writing something up about the build process

cool

is there an example I can see somewhere?

is it in your blog post?

the .cljs.edn file is just a edn file that boot will construct a cljs namespace from

{:require [foo.bar baz.baf]
 :init-fns [foo.bar/main]}

the idea is that this is just data, which all tasks can parse and understand, and even modify

that would be the contents of say src/main.cljs.edn

ah

that would result in main.js, and a namespace that :requires etc

so boot-cljs uses info in there to generate the :main and :output-to settings for the cljs compiler

and other things

but the cool part is that other tasks can now inject code

like the cljs-repl task adds to :require and so does boot-reload

by modifying the edn?

so you don't need flags and stuff in your application

yes

this is open, vs a real namespace, which is closed

since it's impossible to statically understand cljs namespace

and the filename main.js is taken from the foo.bar/main init-fn?

it's taken from the .cljs.edn file name

so like if src/ is on the classpath

and you have src/foo/bar.cljs.edn

that would result in foo/bar.js in your output

the boot-cljs README should have some more specific details

it's basically a cljs shim

ah, gotcha

thanks

do you mind if I run the text I write by you when it's ready?

it's not long

sure no problem!

I assume you don't need to put all of the namespaces in the :require list

it will pull in transitive ones

am I right?

exactly yes

and can init-fns be omitted?

it's so you can restrict it

this was started before the :main option existed in cljs

yes, I see

init-fns can be omitted yes

cool

the idea was that we'd generate .cljs.edn files with boot tasks

like hoplon generates them etc

and then we'd have enough info about the context and application that boot-cljs could figure out all the compiler options on its own

and just do the right thing

ah

like hoplon generates html and .cljs.edn files based on a single "page" spec

that way it can automatically ensure that the html file loads the correct js file and so on

that's cool

ok, i've got the text: https://gist.github.com/ericnormand/25479189841f179e2766#file-clojurescriptboot-md

would you mind having a read?

it's supposed to be very basic

just give people an idea, mostly

of how easy it is to set it up

that looks great

awesome

when you say "built-in" i was thinking like not needing to get any maven dependencies

ah, good call

I'll just remove "built-in"

sorry i haven't responded to youremail btw, i saw it and appreciate what you did

i was in finland, just got back last night

ah, right

I saw the video

very nice

I'll be linking to it this week

finland is beautiful

highly recommend

## [Hoplon and Javelin, WebDev Alternate Reality][1] Youtube

[1]: 

Micha Niskin is making really cool stuff in an alternate reality. He
visited this reality through a portal in a finnish sauna to present the
awesomeness of Hoplon and Javelin.

hahahahaha

:thumbsup: 💯

I do want to write a post about Hoplon

but it's not on the schedule yet

we're in the middle of getting organized, too

just trying to get through the launch of ClojureScript and Om, which starts on monday

it'll be a little while before everything is set up with hoplon

i saw that, good luck!

thanks

I'd love to see what could be done in terms of interactive development with the cljs-in-cljs

well, I really want to play with Hoplon

have you done anything with cljs-in-cljs yet?

it's very compelling

yes

i'm very curious about it

in fact: http://www.lispcast.com/the-most-important-idea-in-computer-science

like maybe doing some more dynamic stuff in the client

there's a code editor that guides you through tdd

using require/refer and so on in the client

I've done a few posts using it

and I've got an updated version of that editor coming soon

interesting

for a small function, it compiles fast enough to do it as you type

i imagine things like hot-patching code and stuff

could be more robust with cljs-in-cljs

yeah

a meteor-like system would be cool

store cljs code in one cell, the js version is a calculated cell from that

haha man that little editor you have is awesome

all synced to the server

it's like unlocking the next level when you handle each case

yeah!

this is great

perfect way to show how it works

thanks!

going to strange loop micha?

i think i'll go to the next one

never been yet

everyone says it's the best one

@ericnormand: sorry of OT, but that eval exercise is really swell

thanks!

there's one for implementing map and reduce too

I hope to have more

also seeing people's answers has been enlightening

they share them in the forum I link to at the end

Yup, I've noticed. Though I must say I kind suck at the TDD part of it, since I usually end up skipping a few tests at a time implementing something before it's even tested ; f