has anyone using hoplon6 for multipage websites? we are having issues when there are multiple index.html's defined. eg:

src/other/index.cljs.hl
  (page "other/index.html" ...)

src/index.cljs.hl
  (page "index.html" ...)

GET 
(anonymous function) @ index.html.js:2

index.html.js:1 GET 
(anonymous function) @ index.html.js:1

index.html:2 ClojureScript could not load :main, did you forget to specify :asset-path?

@micha or @alandipert we have prepared an [example multipage repo](https://github.com/exicon/hoplon-multipage-example) which demonstrates our issue. it would be super helpful if you could help us straighten this problem, because we could migrate our open sourced homepage from boot1+hoplon5 to boot2+hoplon6 finally. it's quite critical because we want to lift over some of our closed sourced elements into it which was already migrated to hoplon6 and it's a blocking factor now.

@cfleming: Yes, the lein-generate thing is working fine for me. Direct support for boot in Cursive would be even better, but for now it works well enough.

@meow: Great, thanks for letting me know.

laura: thanks for preparing the example, i'll have a look this morning

@michal: thanks in advance too! (i was pairing on this issue w @laura today)

@onetom: are you using jquery plugins that modify the DOM in your project?

because the alpha4 version has some changes that interfere with some external libraries (i noticed the problem with mathjax)

alpha3 doesn't have the experimental stuff merged in

(not related to the problem you're reporting here, but i noticed you're using the alpha4 version)

@micha: i think this page in a subdirectory was an issue already before -alpha1 i remember we have experienced something similar even with hoplon5 but then it got fixed somehow. and yes, we would like to use certain direct DOM manipulating libs, eg: * http://filepicker.io/ * https://www.inspectlet.com/ (not sure though how much does it affect the DOM)

onetom: i might back out the alpha4 craziness for now

then there is the lastpass extension for example which caused some confusion for the http://filepicker.io plugin: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17814146/filepicker-io-blocked-iframe-in-chrome

but the page issue will be resolved separately

@micha: how much shall i back out from it? which version is "safe" to use?

alpha3 should be fine

so we even disable the lastpass plugin sometime if something really incomprehensible is happening...

on the closed source project we were using 6.0.0-SNAPSHOT without any issues

i mean alpha2

is -SNAPSHOT a moving target?

i'm not using SNAPSHOT anymore

so it's stable

but alpha2 is the one you want for now

understood

we have to decide at some point where we want to be with respect to the tradeoffs in the experimental stuff

it will make it more difficult to use external js that goes fishing around in the dom and manipulating things

but it also provides a much more uniform model for hoplon stuff

the experimental features eliminate all the edge cases around loop-tpl and defelem

gives you a really simple model for state

but it also interacts poorly with external js that expects to be able to mutate the DOM arbitrarily

which hoplon is currently really good at dealing with

we are quite ready to reimplement some of the functionality offered by external libs, but it would be not practical to live totally without the ability to mix in jquery stuff, like this filepicker or the auth0 login dialog and similar more complex but self contained things

i mean currently as in alpha2

the tradeoff is basically not using external libs that look into the dom and remove elements

so like for mathjax for example

only remove will be "forbidden"? insertion is ok?

yeah

so take mathjax for example

the standard way oto use it is to have text nodes in the DOM that contain strings like \( x^2 + y^2 \)

the backslash-paren is the delimiter mathjax looks for

it traverses the dom looking for that pattern, then it splits up the text node and injects elements

the compiled math notation elements

in the new regime you'd need to use mathjax slightly differently

you'd need to make a hoplon custom element like (mj "x^2 + y^2") for example

and the mj defelem would call a function in mathjax that takes a string argument and returns a dom tree

does that make sense?

absolutely. but is there such a public api in mathjax?

i think so, haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet though

i would hope they would have implemented such a thing if only for use by the dom visitor

i was doing quite a lot of angularjs in the past, where i had to babysit the custom element definition and manage a template, a compile phase and a linking phase and provide funky, 1 letter flags to tell the widget whether u want transclusion or just inclusion

how do you mean?

i doubt u r humanly capable of coming up with such complicated solutions, so im not really worried when u mention tradeoffs 😉

haha thanks

what did you mean by transclusion vs inclusion?

whether the dom elements of the widget were replacing the custom tag or just modifying the children of the custom tag. or something like that, i've erased it from my memory quite quickly after i've learnt about react

ah ok yeah

we don't need that, luckily

and now that we are using hoplon for more than 6months, i have even foggier recollections of it 😉

since defelems are functions, it's always replacing the expression with the result

it's never just modifying the arguments

children == arguments

https://docs.angularjs.org/api/ng/directive/ngTransclude "Directive that marks the insertion point for the transcluded DOM of the nearest parent directive that uses transclusion. Any existing content of the element that this directive is placed on will be removed before the transcluded content is inserted. This directive executes at priority level 0." enough said i think

coconut lisp -- as some knowledgable individual said once...

basically this (div "inline math: \( x^2 + y^2 \)") becomes (div "inline math: " (mathjax "x^2 + y^2"))

the cool thing about the second one is that you can have the math text be a cell

looks beautiful to me.

and it will recompile reactively

i wouldnt talk to you anymore if it wouldnt be reactive! of course it can be a cell!

haha always yes

so perhaps i'll start a 7.0.0 branch with the new model

so we can continue to add bugfixes to alpha2

without getting into a complicated version situation

to ease the transition

sounds like it grants a major version bump indeed

hoplon6 was about boot2 compatibility and more modularity, right?

yeah 6.0.0 was going to be the bump but i think it's too much bumping

extract the reload logic for example

yeah

i don't care how high the version number goes really

just double checking because i foresee my colleagues demanding explanations.

although most of them are reading this conversation anyway 😉

so releasing 6.0.0 and 7.0.0 at the same time seems ok, no?

because i know the external lib interop story is pretty important for applications already in production

we can maintain them side by side

looks a bit weird, but until there is some explanation of it somewhere, it's ok

yeah and the pattern for wrapping external libs like mathjax needs to be fully worked out in detail

or people will be left hanging

if it's really a substantial internal rewrite and you are not convinced it could pan out well and would want to discontinue it, then maybe a fork would be better

like a different artifact id?

yeah, like hoplon-spider-pig-0.1.0

hm yeah

and if it seems like a better model than the current then it can be promoted to be hoplon-7.0.0

cool yes

the goal of 7.0.0 is to make deep DOM abstractions possible

by that i mean rebuild the DOM to be whatever you want it to be

because the edge cases have been eliminated you can completely replace all the primitive dom elements with custom elements

so things like flexbox or cassowary etc can be built in from the bottom up

that's a bit beyond me at the moment

like jumblerg did a pretty extensive reimagining of the DOM with hoplon

he modeled it on adobe flex i think

like (vbox :w 250 :h 125 (hbox ...))

he basically implemented a different box model that's more like a mobile or application model

any url to his work?

he keeps threatening to release it but he's shy 😉

also overworked at the moment i think

deraen: i'm going to finland for ClojuTre!

i think u should say @juhoteperi otherwise it doesnt count as a mention

it would make sense though that at the beginning of the line it should turn into a mention automatically

especially since it autocompletes it

btw, what u just said above really start to look like the rebol visual interface dialect 😉

@micha: Have you thought about proposing a talk?

@juhoteperi: do you think people might want to hear about hoplon, maybe?

@micha: Sure

@micha: How much have you looked into Reagent? I'm thinking comparison would be interesting because as I understand, reagent reactions are nearly identical to formula cells.

I've been testing on how to retrieve cljs output dependency graph using cljs api and I'm nearly there: https://gist.github.com/Deraen/19b62045e74e547025de

Probably I should still take foreign deps into account as they might change.

@juhoteperi: yeah a comparison with react would be the topic probably

the ratoms aren't the same as formula cells really

@micha: That would certainly be interesting

they're not first-class reference types

javelin cells can be used by code that doesn't need to know anything about them

the telling part is that you don't need to use any macros at all to use javelin cells

this is how we can use them from JS

also they are "glitch free"

they propagate changes via a dependency graph, a DAG

Hmm, it's possible to use reactions without macros also. (make-reaction (fn [] (deref some-ratom)))

i don't think that's true, is it?

there needs to be a macro that sniffs out the deref

Nope, make-reactions executes the function and deref implementation registers the watchers

interesting

https://github.com/reagent-project/reagent/blob/master/src/reagent/ratom.cljs#L263-L276

Reaction in fact has separate implementation from RAtom

it will be interesting to compare with javelin

i'll submit a talk proposal

@micha: awesome!!!

it's going to be fun! 🍻

I hope you both will be here at least for the previous day? There is probably going to be some kind of speakers/foreigners dinner and possibly sauna

Actually I’m going to Finland for a whole week vacationing with my girlfriend. Arriving in Helsinki on 9th

@juhoteperi: if you have any recommendations where to stay/what to do, please let me know! We were thinking of staying in some airbnb nearby a lake or something after ClojuTRE.

@martinklepsch: Airbns sounds like a good idea, though I'm not sure if you can find anything with a beach there but I guess nearly everything in Tampere is near a lake. If weather is good Näsinneula observation tower is good place to start, other than that I don't know much 😄

yeah, doesn’t have to be a beach by definition, just some cozy finnish landscapes

are there other sites to check besides airbnb maybe?

There's national park (or two) about 100km away, there should be some good landscapes there. I've been thinking visiting there myself.

@martinklepsch: i'll be there the same dates, i think

is there a #clojutre room yet? 😛

how do you make slack rooms? i don't see a button for it

oh i'm an idiot

lol

#C08BDAFEE

also #C08BDAPRA