Clojurians Log v2
spam-reports 2024-12-16
Hi Do we want to develop an slack alternative (with clojure) or just a knowledge base for reviewing history of Clojurians slack? (Another option is self hosting a Zulip & migrating history of Clojurian to our Zulip server & every one uses Clojurians zulip afterward)
The Clojurians Zulip Chat has been around for years and is free -- sponsored because Zulip like OSS communities. Several of us would be perfectly happy for more folks to use that existing Zulip service... There have been several attempts to create a Clojure/Script chat app but the projects never go anywhere (because no one really commits to building anything that can come close to the UI/UX of Slack or Zulip) -- and it would still need to be hosted and maintained which all costs $$$. Which is why self-hosted suggestions aren't going to fly. As noted elsewhere, we (the admin team here) are talking with the ClojureVerse folks about getting the searchable log updated and running properly again -- and a few community members have expressed interest in building some sort of "search" over the archive.
Make sure to read through the existing threads here in #spam-reports as this has already been discussed quite a bit... The Clojure core folks seem to be fans of Discord, which is another option (they use Discord internally and the Conj conference has been using Discord for several years now).
Does Zulip have an export of a hosted site to a self-hosted? If so it may have that quality of not being vulnerable to shifts in company policy. Self-hosting would be our escape hatch.
@eval2020 would be best placed to answer that I think?
ClojureVerse folks about getting the searchable log updated and running properly again @seancorfieldFYI According to this https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C0CB40N8K/p1734189968545649?thread_ts=1734090569.673009&cid=C0CB40N8K from @plexus on Saturday - the clojurian log are only targeting a partial back fill (of the last few months they missed) and not filling out historical gaps (of which I believe that there may be many) or gaps in their channel list coverage. Whilst I like the Clojurians Log, given: • gaps in history (which won't be resolved), • gaps in channel coverage • lack of built in search, • lack of browsing flexibility (one day at a time only), • little activity/improvements, • variable export reliability • little monitoring (export issues either undetected or unfixed for months) I don't think this is going to be sufficient on its own. I think we should allow the community to create and collaborate on multiple alternatives solutions. I see high quality search and browsable history (+ other projects that the data unlocks) as a key projects to help us keep the community here on Slack without Pro.
Obviously I am not involved in making the final decision, but here are my suggested next steps in case they provide a Steel Man/ Straw Man for us to consider: 1. Upload the slack export as a splitted zip (https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C0CB40N8K/p1734258270077079?thread_ts=1734195507.564139&cid=C0CB40N8K) to Github 2. Provide access to the github repo a. Either fully public b. Or at least give access permission to anyone in this community who wants access and has reasonable standing (e.g. account older than 6 months and taken active part in at least a couple of real Clojure discussions e.g. not just recruiters/lurkers). 3. Someone to setup SlackDump [https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C0CB40N8K/p1734195507564139] to run on a daily basis and push the daily data to the GitHub Slack Data Repo. I'd be happy to volunteer to do this - there may be others who would also volunteer too. 4. Ideally SlackDump could be started as soon as possible before the 19th so that we don't have different formats for the archive and updates. I think we should aim to do this quite rapidly: (A) there are some (like me) who have a few days off over the Christmas period who could setup SlackDump or search or archive browsing - those days off will be gone otherwise (B) we can minimise disruption (or even possible fractures to this community) by releasing new tools using this data as quickly as our Pro access lapses. I understand that this may be considered a change - however not all changes are bad and we have precedent of using the data (Clojurians Log and Zulip Sync) and it could be really big help to this community as we move to a Non-Pro Slack experience.
I totally agree with @rupert, the best is putting the whole Slack data in the git & let different developers to build knowledge base & ... around it. I myself would self host such a knowledge base on my VPS
Does SlackDump work on a Slack instance with a free account (i.e. not the premium paid service we have now)? Because if the answer is "no", then one cannot run SlackDump any longer if/when the premium paid service ends (the event some people are worrying that may happen soon).
Do you mean "Can SlackDump retrieve content you can't see in the UI?" -- very unlikely -- and on the free plan, any content over a year old will be deleted completely. But it's still useful to run it to retrieve what content is accessible so that can be backed up / imported elsewhere.
Note that even if the plan ends, @logbot and @zulip-mirror-bot will continue copying messages to ClojureVerse and Zulip (okay, so the former is a bit broken but it's being worked on).
Moving the Zulip discussion to a thread of its own. (We may want a channel, but anyway.) Let’s make this a Clojurian’s Zulip support thread. 😃 We can use it for writing a guide for switching.
How do I clear all unreads? I’m a slow reader and there are 35K unread messages.
To help people search the slack archives for the #calva channel, I added this link to the description to the Zulip Calva channel: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/#narrow/search/channel%3Aslack-archive%20topic%3Acalva It doesn’t perform the search, unfortunately, but hitting enter in the search box, will, and the user can then search for whatever. WDYT?
Want to attend an Into-to-Zulip meeting? Mark your availability here: https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C0CB40N8K/p1734353447612149?thread_ts=1734216702.001119&cid=C0CB40N8K
> How do I clear all unreads? Found it.
When I click on the <#CBE668G4R|calva> channel Zulip auto-selects some random topic and then locks me in there. I need to click the channel name again to see the feed. Is this a configuration issue, or something I can control in my settings? (But who would want it to work like this?)
Found it. In user preferences:
Can I kick the Notification Bot out of a channel?
Where do you see that bot? I don't remember seeing it anywhere.
It posts in the channel everytime I update the channel description. Can you see if you see it in the Calva channel? If it is only I who see that, then I don’t need to get rid of the bot.
Ah yeah, I see it there. Don't know how to kick it and FWIW I'm not sure that would be a good idea. Slack has a problem where channel descriptions are basically never read by people - that bot on Zulip somewhat makes sure that people are aware of the new description. And if someone is not happy about that, they can mute the bot on their end.
Slack also updates the channel when the description is updated. It doesn’t help at all. It is only an annoyance. Especially with the behaviour of locking visitors in on the last updated topic. It is actually hard to see the real content of the channel.
Oh, really? I don't remember noticing it when we were experimenting with the description of the #announcements channel. Maybe I somehow disabled it or just forgot. And as you said - that "locking" is configurable, I never experience it. That could be confusing for users completely new to Zulip, but it's not affected by the bot all that much, unless you change the description much more frequently than real people posting messages in the same channel.
I don’t want to argue about the bot. I want to know if I can get rid of it.
Doesn't seem like it can be done: https://zulip.com/help/configure-automated-notices And removing the bot would also remove messages about a topic being resolved or unresolved - something that I personally find quite useful.
I created a test Zulip team just to get to see how things can be configured. I found a Default user settings setting, which I find very neat. Means we can create default user settings that will be more slack-like and hopefully ease the friction for switching.
You have an option to mark everything as read when clicking the triple colon operator (⫶) next to recent conversations.