Juuuuuust to be sure: 25k€ or 2.5k€? because I don’t think you can put that much hardware into a laptop that it would be worth 25k€?

Maybe 25 hundred...? That would sound like something what a person who counts in $ would say.

An obligatory question, just in case - does it have to be a laptop? And if it does, how much of a concern is its mobility - weight, size?

Thanks. I was looking at prices in SEK and failed the math. We're not a very rich family that can through those sums on computing power. 😃 Now updated.

If you try something from tuxedocomputers or system96 with GPU you will not get mux circuitry. Which means it's a laptop where you can't have real hybrid graphics, only software-based. Which means you have to run GPU all the time. I have Stellaris 15 and I'm forced to run Nvidia drivers all of the time. I.e. it's a laptop that acts as a stationary. No Nvidia GPU driver => no external screen 🤷 It sucks really bad. I... CAN go somewhere with my laptop but the time is capped to 2.5h (battery is already 93Wh which is insane capacity but it's because the GPU eats it that fast and to turn it off you'd need to restart the X session which is not practical (and there is no software hybrid for Wayland so I'm also stuck with X)) I would also advise against buying anything that is "gamer oriented" because they may not have the mux circuitry. And that will make the laptop behave just as I described. And if you run Windows then you'd be running "Windows hybrid mode" which is this software-based buffer to enable two screens but it will run GPU all the time. I.e. if the person will do only gaming he won't care about portability. But for data mining you don't need to run GPU 100% of the time. You need a small burst or a night run. You don't run that all the time... it's not needed. Also to fully utilize the hardware you would need to crank the fans to the max. So you also probably don't want that. Maybe you could already get that same performance if you would clean the laptop...

Does it have to be a laptop... He seldom uses it outside his room, but it happens, so I'd say yes, we're talking about a laptop, even though it is not some Macbook Air-type of machine I'm looking for.

Battery time is not super important either. (Regarding your mention of those 2.5 hs, @U028ART884X).

As an alternative, assuming that the period when he takes it somewhere does not involve gaming - perhaps the old laptop can be repaired for cheap to serve as a mobile solution and a proper PC can be bought to be used for gaming and stuff. PCs a much easier to upgrade and fix, are cheaper, and the spectrum of available choices is much wider. If you buy a good high quality monitor, you won't have to replace it even if you decide to upgrade the whole PC itself. IME, all laptops have their quirks. Especially with discrete GPUs. And those quirks change with time. Like with Lenovo that you had - a few years ago, there had been a dark period where the build quality suffered dramatically. To the point where the cooling system wasn't even attached to the things it was supposed to cool. No clue what the current state of things is. MSI can go straight to hell - for multiple years, their laptops have been one of the most unmaintainable and unhackable ones. You couldn't even change the fan speed, even if you wanted to increase it. AFAIK, it's still the case today. HP are pretty good nowadays, it seems. They even have their own YT channel where they show how to fully disassemble their laptops and replace any part you want. But no clue about their discrete GPU situation.

Oh also I have to say that even though I really don't like that I can't run hybrid mode for my GPU I can adjust all fan speeds and my RAM is not soldered. My HDD is not soldered and my battery can be replaced. On a laptop. That I bought last year. But that missing hybrid GPU mode is a pretty sad thing.

I have no idea about what this mux thing means, @U028ART884X. He will be using the computer mostly for gaming, and for school things and generally as most people use computers. He is not into data mining and similar.

Mux circuitry means that your external monitor can be attached not only to GPU directly but to CPU too. This means that GPU can go down when you don't need it. If you don't have that circuitry then when you shut down the GPU you won't be able to use external monitor. So when you uninstall Nvidia drivers then you can't connect any external screen at all. Even for presentations. None. I.e. one HDMI/VGA/DP port but it goes to both display-producing components, not only to GPU

@U2FRKM4TW, I think he'd appreciate something open and hackable. He likes to tinker with things.

Why would you uninstall Nvidia drivers (genuin question, I really have no idea).

I told about uninstalling because it's the simplest thing to explain. If you would have the correct circuit design then you could be able to run both drivers at the same time (CPU+GPU graphics). But if you have only one way to access the outbound monitor (GPU owns the ports) then you must run the GPU drivers no matter what. And if you want to switch to internal monitor (CPU-graphics & NO-GPU-graphics) then on linux you have to restart the session. I.e. to save power you have to relaunch all your apps. On windows they have a software-based switch which is "slower for gamers" but basically it's several FPS less. But that's not opened to linux. So it depends what OS the person will run.

I've picked up vibes elsewhere about Lenovo not being what it used to be, @U2FRKM4TW. That's sad, because the one he has really has served him well. I'll ask him about the idea of using it as his portable option.

I've actually ordered a Steam Deck for him that I hope will make a nice Christmas present. So maybe his need for portable gaming will be mostly covered by that. CC: @U052UKD2A

Seems like there are plenty of HP laptops with discrete GPUs, like this one for example https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/p/90843516 And a corresponding disassembly video that lists all possible details, including the sets of necessary tools: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZebpxQZP4JI

> it depends what OS the person will run I think that for gaming he is mostly using Windows. But he is sometimes using Linux as well.

Gaming on Linux is about 95% on par with Windows nowadays, IME. At least, when it comes to Steam. Running off-Steam might require some tinkering, but is usually doable just fine as well.

Thanks, @U2FRKM4TW! I'm a bit surprised to learn that HP is an option. I remember their laptops as being super bad. (But we're talking about 25+ years ago, haha.)

They were indeed bad. :) But feels like now they're taking the place of Lenovo.

Oh, and an extra comment on Linux - if you or your son don't like spending days fiddling with Linux then definitely don't use it as the main system on a very recently manufactured laptop.

Chances are, even after days of fiddling you won't be able to make some "niche" hardware (fingerprint scanner, webcam, 4G module, etc) run properly or at all just because its manufacturer changed something and didn't create a Linux driver or disclose the specification.

Yeah, he and I have been fiddling a lot with Linux on a small ASUS box we have attached to the TV here. I think he uses Windows as his main OS on his laptop, booting into Linux sometimes from an external drive.

Steam has really made a great job with making Linux an option for gaming, but it's still a high ratio fiddling/gaming.

To put it in numbers (maybe my 95% was off): • I have to do something but just launching the game on Linux around 1 game in 10 • Among those 10%, that "something" 8 times out of 10 is just choosing a different Proton version (a couple of mouse clicks) • 1 game out of the remainder (i.e. 1 game in 100) requires some serious fiddling - toying around with Proton flags, updating the GPU driver, changing kernel parameters • 1 final game in 100 will simply not run, no matter what I do

Heh, funny thing - Elden Ring was one of those games where I had to play with Proton flags. But in the end, it ran in a much more stable way than on Windows, according to reviews and discussions on Steam.

If it ran smoother on Linux then it's not only "just smoother". Nvidia drivers have capped kW that go into the GPU (you can't change the signed driver). So if it performs faster on Linux then it could be way faster if Nvidia would allow the GPU to run on the speed that it can run on Windows.

You mean, the wattage available on Linux is by design lower than on Windows? Can you share a link so I could read up on that?

It's not by design lower. It's by software. I'll try to find it. They could uncap it but they don't care. The driver itself simply says "hey, cap this".

Well, "design" doesn't mean "only hardware". :) I just meant that it's not by coincidence but rather by the GPU's manufacturer's choice. Also, there's a chance that it run in a more smooth way exactly because it had less power. But the chance is slim.

> (NVIDIA currently allows a maximum of 115 W TGP under Linux. We are already in close contact with NVIDIA to improve the NVIDIA graphics driver as soon as possible and will deliver it via the system updates!) So on my laptop I am allowed to push 115W instead of 165W into GPU (sorry for non-official source). https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Stellaris-15-Gen3.tuxedo

I have found a discussion on NVIDIA forums that links to that page and that's from 2021 and ends in March of 2022. In May of 2022, NVIDIA released the source code for its GPU kernel modules. Not sure whether it's related, but my GeForce RTX 2070S is, apparently, supposed to peak at 215 watts. And nvidia-smi shows that it's cap is indeed exactly 215 watts - nothing is reduced here.

I didn't try to push the GPU that far to know whether it will cap. I'll try it.

I think my GPU is too fast. I tried to launch 10 glxgears and they simply got less overall FPS (I also cranked fans to the max). But one glxgears gives 67758 frames in 5.0 seconds = 13551.600 FPS (yes, it's a laptop on linux). And with one it takes 57W (via nvidia-smi). I removed all games from this laptop but if you know how to push my GPU to max wattage then let me know. Maybe aircrack-ng or johntheripper? Full screen glxgears gives this with 82KW: 44548 frames in 5.0 seconds = 8909.579 FPS

glxgears is not supposed to be a good GPU test - any GPU nowadays is too fast for it, even an embedded one. Games also wouldn't be a good way to measure a GPU's top power consumption. A couple of options: • https://benchmark.unigine.com/ • https://www.phoronix-test-suite.com/

Just loaded my GPU to its full 215 watts using the Unigine Heaven benchmark.

I just purchased a Lenovo Legion Slim 7 with 16GB ram and 1TB SSD. I installed POP!_OS on it and it worked right out of the gate! Check the specs out for that or similar, @U0ETXRFEW

@U2FRKM4TW What OS do you use? Is it Linux? Do you use Nvidia's driver? Is it a laptop? My GPU is capped to 115W (I ran the same benchmark, 3070 here):

@U0ETXRFEW given that he enjoys tinkering, gaming is a priority, and the budget is important, IMO, it makes sense to do a PC build. It's not super complex or risky (parts incompatibility) any more (v/s the 2000s). One of the big advantages is that, one can build gradually, on a reasonably expandable base (case, motherboard, CPU). PC parts picker is a good place to start. He will find many builds already listed, along with parts and reviews (build "recipes", if you like), to help him get started: https://pcpartpicker.com/ The laptop can get a life extension with a battery replacement, and can be a mobile box for college coursework etc.

@U028ART884X Ubuntu, stock NVIDIA driver, PC. What GPU do you have?

GeForce RTX 3070 Mobile + NVIDIA 515.57 + arch linux laptop I'm still even at this point figuring it out how much I'm still scammed by risking and buying from that shady vendor... 😄

Interesting. On the off chance that that benchmark is not enough, can you try the more recent one and choose the highest graphics settings? On the Heaven one, I maxed everything out and ran it in 2560x1440 and it just barely managed to get to its TGP. Your GPU, while mobile, is still newer - maybe it's powerful enough to just never draw more than ~115 watts. Also, if you want to proceed, let's do it in the DMs to stop derailing the thread. :)

Well my laptop's Nvidia GPU is capped at 115W. That's what we figured in a private thread. So if you decide to buy a laptop and run Linux your GPU should also be capped. I think this is the case for all Linux laptops. But you could run Windows to run with a better cap (165W). So if it's for gaming and every frame matters then I would consider dual-booting. But I'm not concerned about gaming and I moved away from this model long time ago. I'm also on a laptop and p-himik is on a stationary. And I hit the fluctuation point x<=115W in 3 seconds. So I'm confident that I'm not allowed to push more power there. I hit 115W in 3 seconds with default settings, not even with the max settings. i.e. you should consider stationary if you'll want to run Linux

If gaming is a priority, I would strongly suggest a desktop build. It will be more performant and quiet compared to a gaming laptop. It will be cheaper, too.

Probably the best gaming ultra book you can get right now is https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-S-13-OLED-laptop-review-Subnotebook-impresses-with-fast-AMD-Ryzen-7-6800U.633487.0.html: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bSetglEPOY

Has an oled screen, probably the best integrated graphics chip on the market, it can actually play recent games. And the latest 8 core ryzen amd, which is on par of the 12th gen P series intel but way better on battery, closer to m1/m2 level efficiency

So, have had a chat with my son now. He prefers something stationary and likes the idea of building it himself. So, given a budget of 2.5K EUR/USD which needs to include a monitor. What should we be considering? I watched some super boring videos on Youtube yesterday on the subject and figured as much as that the graphics card is the most important and that there's a generation shift in graphics cards going on/about to happen. I'm considering giving him the budget, and want to be able to understand the trade-offs anyway. But I don't think I can take all that much more of those Youtube videos. Would appreciate tips about blogs where I can read up on things in my own pace.

I know you said gaming capability is a priority, but as a temporary workaround you can try GeForce Now or other cloud streaming services, you can use it to play a lot of games on a Mac or Linux machine without dedicated graphics cards. I use it to play games occasionally on my intel Macbook air as paying for a gaming rig doesn’t make sense for my occasional gaming.

I'll again point to the gaming rig build guides at PC Part picker (no affiliation): https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/ The "Enthusiast" Intel-based build looks pretty solid. The guide also links to the AMD Ryzen based alternative build. The whole thing should take maybe a day to fully set up, once parts arrive. https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/kM7Ycf/enthusiast-intel-gamingstreaming-build

The comments section on those guides discuss tradeoffs, and build issues etc. if any. And are a good port of call to get community input for questions / research etc.

Thanks, @U051MHSEK!

Thanks for that review video link, @U050PJ2EU. Very solid and interesting throughout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K007--xD8DU

Reminds me of my childhood in the 90s pouring through those massive "COMPUTER SHOPPER" catalogs, speccing out the perfect 486 :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Y'all remember the 66 megahertz one with the turbo button that would bump it up to 100?

Thanks for that video link, @U028ART884X. Somehow it filled a gap for me in trying to figure out how all these options fit together.

Netlify allows you to just send it the files - via its CLI, via drag-n-drop, and via its HTTP API.

Oh, really? Could you point me to the right CLI command for that? I couldn't find it when I was researching providers.

aha, it appears to be: https://docs.netlify.com/cli/get-started/#manual-deploys thanks for correcting my assumptions!

I've deployed to netlify via github actions too, found it simple to use even for an idiot like me.

If it's just static assets, github pages also works?

What is a local deploy for a static site? I thought that was as simple as running a local static webserver. (eg. python3 -m http.server) For deploying a static website, github pages works great. If you don't want to use github for some reason, amazon's s3 is really convenient, https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/WebsiteHosting.html

For http://blog.michielborkent.nl and http://michielborkent.nl in general I use a VPS + nginx + rsync

A "local deploy" means what I think I described: running the build on my laptop and syncing its resulting HTML to my host without re-doing the same build on the hosting provider's build pipeline. Having used GitHub pages before, it expects a build - like the output of Jekyll or whatever - to produce the HTML before putting it on their CDN/hosting. I want to cut out that part of the process by running my build locally and uploading, in a manner similar to rsync, to a CDN like Surge or Netlify. - which means no VPS to provision and manage. I just switched to that process using netlify deploy earlier today thanks to @U2FRKM4TW's recommendation.

GitHub pages does not expect you to use Jekyll. You can build your pages locally, just put them in your repo and then serve them

E.g. I'm releasing my own html produced with asciidoctor from this repo: https://github.com/babashka/book to here: https://book.babashka.org/

this means I'd have to commit every change to the HTML pages to the repo's history, which seems unnecessary if the source files are already under revision control.

@UFTRLDZEW I do have that, but it's separated from the sources, so not really visible to someone working on the stuff

I've done it with one of my cats and he absolutely loved it

We used to take one of our cats out in the yard in a harness and leash when he was a kitten and he didn't hate it.

he hated the leash until I got him outside and then he tolerated it (probably was too distracted by all the other things he was seeing)

he never followed a lead or anything, or wanted to do a proper walk like a dog does, but wanted to wander around and explore

The cat is walking you :)

People in our apartment complex do this, too. Confuses the hell out of our dog, when we meet them outside

I saw in the news that in some parts of Canada people might have to walk their cats on a leash since they can't go out alone anymore because they kill too many endangered species

The cats I mean :)

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/07/toronto-cat-leash-outside/

Letting your cat roam freely is forbidden in some communities here in Germany, too, for the same reason.

I’m in Canada, and my neighbour’s cat is a murderous fiend. She likes us so brings us various beheaded small creatures as gifts. And she poops in our garden. Other than that, a nice little fur ball.

I think this is probably Hobbes’ first walk.

He's also an occasional murderer and prodigious garden pooper.

My cat Steak learned to follow me around outside without a harness after a few sessions of walking down a narrow alley together with my then-roommate's cat.

and for many seasons would follow me around at night on the sidewalk, at a weird cat-like pace and distance ofc course, but often coming up to my side before darting up a tree.

my spacebar has been broken for months pardon the slop