@bsima: correct, and we keep that file encrypted

well, we have adzerk-wide config that we keep encrypted and a shell function that runs gpg, decrypts, and exports everything in it

Ah, cool

Thanks alandipert

mynomoto: thanks for pushing the https://clojars.org/hoplon/castra i held it off because i wanted to adapt the hoplon-demos to work with castra.core but it was not working and haven't got back to it since... i think there were a couple of :bind-ids in it which can not be transformed half sleeping...

lot of movement happening these days, :thumbsup:

something simple must be wrong with my set up because otherwise this forum would be filled with fire and brimstone rather than folks actually doing stuff...

latest installment

`i-Mc-Mini% boot
java.lang.RuntimeException: No reader function for tag tailrecursion.boot.core/version
                      ...                
 clojure.core/read-string  core.clj: 3663
boot.util/read-string-all  util.clj:  207
          boot.main/-main  main.clj:  140
                      ...                
         boot.App.runBoot  App.java:  242
            boot.App.main  App.java:  356

that’s what happens if I am in the project directory (for example /Users/mcd/Development/Projects/hello-hoplon)

if I am outside of the project directory boot actuallt fires up ok

like this

boot | head -10
Boot App Version: 2.2.0
Boot Lib Version: 2.2.0
Clojure Version:  1.7.0

Usage:   boot OPTS <task> TASK_OPTS <task> TASK_OPTS ...

OPTS:    -a --asset-paths PATH      Add PATH to set of asset directories.
         -b --boot-script           Print generated boot script for debugging.
         -B --no-boot-script        Ignore boot script in current directory.
         -C --no-colors             Remove ANSI escape codes from printed output.

I am running the latest version of boot an created the project using lein new hoplon hello-world

so I will now try again with the off-piste hoplon version

and holy cr4p it’s actually up and running!

boot dev
<< started reload server on ws://localhost:53026 >>
Writing boot_reload.cljs...

Starting file watcher (CTRL-C to quit)...

Compiling Hoplon pages...
• index.cljs.hl
Adding :require adzerk.boot-reload to index.html.cljs.edn...
Compiling ClojureScript...
• index.html.js
2015-09-14 11:38:32.349 java[5290:1139671] 11:38:32.349 WARNING:  140: This application, or a library it uses, is using the deprecated Carbon Component Manager for hosting Audio Units. Support for this will be removed in a future release. Also, this makes the host incompatible with version 3 audio units. Please transition to the API's in AudioComponent.h.
Elapsed time: 22.686 sec

thanks for the support @alandipert and @mynomoto I look forward to sharing the joy!

(just to be clear that’s with the hoplon-contacts-demo-master)

@raymcdermott: the lein template for hoplon doesn't seem to be up to date, that's why you were getting the errors

look into one of: - https://github.com/hoplon/demos/tree/hoplon6 - https://github.com/alandipert/hoplon-contacts-demo - https://github.com/mynomoto/hoplon-minimal - https://github.com/xificurC/hoplon-markdown-editor for some simple setups

it’s working now but thanks for the other resources!

@raymcdermott: I was getting something similar - It looks like Hoplon6 is just about ready to roll and I would like something to experiment with; I’ll look into the repos @xifi posted - I just want to get a feel for it

yes, likewise - unfortunately the delivery side isn’t quite up to the marketing campaign! Seems like it’s on the brink of stability though so there is hope 😉

@tbrooke: @raymcdermott since you are the new guys, do you think it's better to update the templates to use hoplon 6, meaning less surprising and better to learn overall? I have those done, only not merged/deployed

I don’t know enough to answer your question. The main thing that I want as a newcomer to anything is for the happy path examples referenced from the main documentation site to work as advertised. How you do that is beyond my pay grade - at least for now!

My 2 cents as a relative newcomer - the http://hoplon.io site should state it is being moved to the github pages. I was too working my way through the getting started section, fighting through the weird error messages

and second the move to hoplon 6, the community is relatively small so no need to keep backward compatibility since everyone is moving to 6 anyway no?

i think it's ok to push ahead with the 6 templates @mynomoto , the new site will be up this week... and after that we can work together on the wiki

maybe add a note to the template's README that aims at new hoplon wiki?

Makes sense, will do it tonight. We may want to add a note on the current http://hoplon.io some sort of deprecation warning on the getting started.

shouldnt we just take down http://hoplon.io to reduce confusion? or put up the current one in any ugly format, which clearly says "We are in transition during 2015 September, so excuse us for the http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ look and feel."

and hopefully it would be up only for a few days and only a handful of people would see it...

i won't have time for a few hours yet to do that but i can click a Merge button

:thumbsup: to the idea

Sounds great I’m glad to add to the wiki and struggle with being an early adopter but I need something to get off the ground with and like @raymcdermott says it is currently beyond my pay grade

tbrooke: dont be shy, just keep asking here. we might be able to spend time on help.

(though it's almost midnight here and im gonna sleep soon probably)

i've also struggled at the beginning, but i've struggled a lot more with angularjs... 😉

@onetom: will do - Actually I like your stuff with Semantic UI

happy to hear! we are quite pleased with semantic ourselves too

im also quite happy to have the opportunity to build a realistic history of a hoplon+semantic project

i hope it becomes worth studying eventually. it's gonna be like a fossil, enclosing footprints from the different periods of the boot and hoplon evolution 😉

@micha: just watched your clojutre talk on YouTube, really enjoyed it. Kinda abstract but it hit home when you compared javelin to react/virtual DOM

thanks @bsima

tricky to fit everything into 20 minutes, but i think the shorter format was better overall

Yeah I wish it went on for another 20 minutes so I could see demo/examples, or at least a description of your workflow

link?

But I think all that will come with the upcoming Hoplon releases

maybe 20 minute modules is the sweet spot

@xifi https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLetHPRQvX4a_tA9hGP935-OyLOYaRKpnj

@bsima: thanks! that's from today?

i gave the talk at #C08BDAFEE this past friday

cool. I found 3 more on the web - LA clojure talk, Alan at Toronto and the one you have linked on http://hoplon.io

only seen the last one I mentioned

do you have more?

I heard Alandipert is scheduled to give one in November at some conference

But Hoplon is deceptively simple, doesn't really require that much explanation

yeah, as I said before the whole source code of javelin+castra+hoplon kicks in at around 3.3k loc which is almost a lie to call a framework 😛

these is also this one http://www.infoq.com/presentations/ClojureScript-Javelin

it's pre-hoplon

also shows a nearly unrecognizable javelin api

hehe

http://tailrecursion.com/~alan/index.cgi/doc/tip/documents/Dipert-FRP_in_ClojureScript_with_Javelin.pdf

wigwam

wigwam is one of the wonders of the PHP world

it had a php repl that said DON'T PANIC in friendly asciiart banner

you guys did php?

https://camo.githubusercontent.com/78574aca8eb8dbf6c65e03231f559d5fbb1e6960/68747470733a2f2f7261772e6769746875622e636f6d2f7461696c726563757273696f6e2f77696777616d2f6d61737465722f7068702d7265706c2e706e67

this was like 250 KLOC probably

a huge php application

maybe 150K LOC, i forget

did you switch to clojure only later?

the application already existed before i ever touched it

we were in the process of moving things to clojure but things unraveled before we were able to complete it

i mean they're still around and everything, but the clojure project was put on hold and alan and i left

you worked together in a different company before?

at a different company? English isn't my first language, sorry

at least 3 if you include the us government

lol

government stuff, woo

is lisp running there too

do you guys know each other from work? Or are you like potty-friends

@xifi: if you haven't seem yet I like this talk a lot too: https://vimeo.com/115271300

will be another fine day at work when I start watching these

thanks

hey micha

hi @flyboarder

how's it going?

@micha: it's going good, much development on the clojurescript side

@micha: How about you? I see the new hoplop site, looks good!

yeah awesome group effort there!

matches the boot-clj feel, love it ❤️

josh smith ftw

he did the design for both

nice

what have you been doing in clojurescript lately?

well im still new to clojure in general but im working on a web app, wrote a CES engine in clojure using it as a base for the web app

great sounds like a good start

Any idea why this isnt working? (def route (route-cell "#/home/")) (cell= (println route)) (html (body (div (cell= (div :toggle (cell= (= route "#/home/")) (a :href "#/nothome" "Go nothome")) (div :toggle (cell= (= route "#/nothome/")) (a :href "#/home" "Go home"))))))

i get the first link but i click it and go to #/nothome and it's blank

you don't have a (head) in there?

well in the actualy code I do but im using this as a test

oh ok

your cell is looking for "#/nothome/" though

not "#/nothome"

you can add a formula to add the slash, that's what i do

like (def raw-route (route-cell "#/home/"))

(defc= route (if (= (last raw-route) "/") raw-route (str raw-route "/")))

or something along those lines

ok i fixed the url's as so

(html (head) (body (div (cell= (div :toggle (cell= (= route "#/home/")) (a :href "#/nothome/" "Go nothome")) (div :toggle (cell= (= route "#/nothome/")) (a :href "#/home/" "Go home"))))))

but I get the same result 6-alpha10

is the version

so to debug things like this you can open the dev tools in your browser and inspect the DOM

the first link works and redirects to a blank page, the other div is not in the dom and does not get added

oh i see

right, you have a cell= in there

is that making it only evaluate the next part once? i thought that would allow me to save on memory?

ok this slack thing is pretty cool, like modern IRC 😛

putting cells as children of elements has a specific effect

and it's not really what you want here i think

you use cells for things that will need to change over time

also nesting of cell= gets you into confusing territory

there is normally no need to do this

@micha: so what if I dont want it in the dom for a security reason? is there a way to add/remove it instead of show/hide?

or to save memory or whatever the case may be

the client already has your javascript, what security could be gained?

i think it's better to optimize those things later

well the javascript is more difficult to interpret url paths and such no? im really thinking about the size of the application more than security

as size and speed much affect the performance of a CES engine

you can manage things directly if you want to, of course

using the appendChild methods etc

we generally use static allocation of DOM elements wherever possible

which is pretty much everywhere

and if there is a specific thing that isn't performing well enough we then work on that thing

this way we have the simplest possible thing

we're not building games though

im actually not either, it's a web dashboard but trying my hand at clj(s) and expanding the lisp

i don't think you'll run into any problems doing it the naive way with a web dashboard

i've made a bunch of them

you're not going to be making hundreds of thousands of things

yeah and i plan on using a static set of actual display elements

i recommend not optimizing anything until you actually have a performance issue

sounds good

now for the sake of my curiosity if for some reason you really did want to keep things in/out of dom working with it directly is how it would be done more or less

well there are things you can do

but you then need to think about allocation and things like that in a more hands-on way

and time becomes a factor

like the order in which things happen and so on

i see

you can use (cell= ...) for that

anything important really should be coming from an rpc call tho yeah

static allocation greatly simplifies everything

when you need to manage the heap it gets complicated

just made a cool lil function for the new homepage:

(defn >-
  "Helper function to create deep nested structures with a certain attribute pattern.

  (>- div :class [\"foo\" \"bar\" \"baz\"] (p \"Hello\"))

  is analagous to:

  (div :class \"foo\"
    (div :class \"bar\"
      (div :class \"baz\"
        (p \"Hello\"))))
  "
  [elem-ctor attr-kw attr-vals & kids]
  (let [[inner & outers] (reverse attr-vals)]
    (reduce #(elem-ctor attr-kw %2 %1) (elem-ctor attr-kw inner kids) outers)))

@alandipert: should the new site not be done in hoplon tho? as pretty as it is 😛

@flyboarder: workin on it, check out https://github.com/tailrecursion/hoplon.io/tree/new-look

@alandipert: spoke too soon