This page is not created by, affiliated with, or supported by Slack Technologies, Inc.
2021-12-08
Channels
- # adventofcode (49)
- # babashka (21)
- # babashka-sci-dev (12)
- # beginners (250)
- # calva (23)
- # cider (6)
- # clj-kondo (11)
- # cljsrn (8)
- # clojure (129)
- # clojure-europe (50)
- # clojure-france (8)
- # clojure-italy (6)
- # clojure-nl (14)
- # clojure-romania (7)
- # clojure-spec (21)
- # clojure-uk (3)
- # clojurescript (17)
- # conjure (1)
- # core-async (40)
- # core-logic (24)
- # core-typed (7)
- # datavis (2)
- # datomic (2)
- # emacs (29)
- # fulcro (10)
- # graalvm (6)
- # graphql (24)
- # gratitude (6)
- # jobs (1)
- # lsp (9)
- # malli (6)
- # missionary (1)
- # nextjournal (46)
- # off-topic (2)
- # other-languages (3)
- # pathom (5)
- # portal (2)
- # re-frame (37)
- # remote-jobs (1)
- # shadow-cljs (15)
- # spacemacs (9)
- # testing (6)
- # tools-deps (13)
- # vim (32)
- # xtdb (16)
Hey gang. We're playing with Discourse as a long-form / slow alternative to Slack and Zulip that retains messages forever and maintains them on the public web so they're searchable. Do any of you folks have strong feelings about the use of Discourse as an alternative to mailing lists? (We wouldn't drop Zulip, fwiw.)
My only comment is that it adds "yet another" destination to visit and/or yet another tab to keep open in a browser. I hate Discourse from an email p.o.v. One thing you might want to do is ask @U04V6FEES to integrate the feed from your Discourse into the Zulip feed that already includes ClojureVerse.
That said, I currently don't check the Juxt Zulip as often as I ought because it's already "yet another destination" 🙂 (and, more importantly, I'm not actually an XTDB user at the moment so feel free to ignore me).
No, no... real world feedback is what we need. "I don't log into Zulip ... but I also wouldn't log into Discourse" is valid feedback on two levels. 😉
> One thing you might want to do is ask @U04V6FEES to integrate the feed from your Discourse into the Zulip feed that already includes ClojureVerse. I'm not sure I parsed this correctly. CV dumps into Clojurians Zulip and we could maybe add our own Discourse dump into Clojurians Zulip?
> I hate Discourse from an email p.o.v. @U04V70XH6 I'm personally keen on Discourse as an alternative to Good Ol' Fashioned Mailing Lists. I'd prefer straight-up mailman-style lists myself, but they seem to be out of vogue. 😕 Do you have any recommendations?
Yes, Gert reads the RSS feed from ClojureVerse (I think) and pushes new posts to https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/150792-announce/topic/ClojureVerse -- that's how I find out about "ask" questions, Reddit, HN, and StackOverflow posts.
(he has bots that scan those sites and posts new items into other topics under that announce stream)
> I'd prefer straight-up mailman-style lists myself I used to always prefer mailing lists but chat servers and web forums seem to have supplanted them. I like the chat server format although it's a pain that I have to follow Clojurians Slack, Clojurians Zulip, Juxt Zulip, and Discord (three servers -- but at least they're all under a single browser tab). I only visit the web forums when Zulip shows me new activity -- I loathe nearly all web forums!
I never really got into zulip as I find the ux a little confusing... idk if most discussions are even worth retaining and any long term place becomes an archive of old things that are not even relevant anymore.
We use zulip at work daily, but I don't log into juxt zulip since I've been a bit confused on where the "action" really is and we are still not really using xtdb. Soon, soon… But I do much prefer it to slack or anything else I've used for chat purposes. I don't really follow any mailing lists or discourse anymore, but I've found Discourse much superior to finding answers via google afterwards, compared to any mailing list archive tool I've ever seen.
> I've found Discourse much superior to finding answers via google afterwards, compared to any mailing list archive tool I've ever seen. @U8ZQ1J1RR That's really helpful to know. Thanks! We're definitely in the market for some stable web searchability so poor @U899JBRPF isn't doomed to a life of answering the same question 1000s of times on Zulip for the rest of his life. 😉
> I loathe nearly all web forums! @U04V70XH6 I definitely can't see a world where Zulip and Discourse compete. I know Slack and Zulip are "web" technologies... but they're desktop apps, really. My mental model for all of these chat tools is that they're fancy replacements for IRC -- and I expect Matrix to replace them all, given enough time. I'm curious why the hatred for web forums, though? One of the benefits I'd hoped to get out of Discourse was the email integration (as an alternative to mailing lists) but it sounds like you're not happy with that, either? Would love to hear your experience reports on this since the goal isn't just to choose tools that tick all the boxes but tools that people actually enjoy using. 🙂
Regarding Zulip capabilities (I’m one of the Clojurians Zulip admins, not following xtdb here or at Zulip): Zulip is close to launching public streams^3 Zulip has the following email integration: • one can send to a stream-specific address^0 • subscribe said address (with any config options^1) to a mailing-list^2 • set personal email-notifications so you can stay out of Zulip-app/web and do everything via email And as Sean suggested we got some code lying around for discourse-new-topics-feed->zulip-topic, see https://gitlab.com/clojurians-zulip/announce-feeds/-/tree/master#zulip-announce-feeds 0: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/help/message-a-stream-by-email 1: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/help/message-a-stream-by-email#configuration-options 2: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/help/using-zulip-via-email 3: https://chat.zulip.org/help/web-public-streams I guess this GH-issue is a good one to follow for progress: https://github.com/zulip/zulip/issues/4817#issuecomment-985071111
FWIW ... Like Sean, I would vastly prefer fewer places for interaction. Having network effects (when beyond critical mass) is extremely valuable. The more people can interact in fewer places, the better the value of the ecosystem for everyone. A bi-directional bridge between places of interaction can help mitigate some of the issues. Being able to search history in one place is also extremely useful. My personal preferences are: Slack (with history) > Zulip > Slack (without history) > Discourse > Discord