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#other-languages
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2018-09-13
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jsa-aerial19:09:47

Not sure how you could pull that off while still requiring full static typing...

ddellacosta14:09:16

ha, yep. ^ May be of interest to @john and @andy.fingerhut who were asking related questions the other day in #off-topic?

borkdude14:09:53

I wonder how the situation is in OCaml, same I guess

ddellacosta14:09:14

no idea! Now I have to go research it…haha

borkdude14:09:45

Antonio Monteiro (lumo) just gave a talk on #clojutre about full stack OCaml development.

Aleksander14:09:47

there is significant effort put into tooling and friendliness via ReasonML

borkdude14:09:25

@dev964 yes, it’s reason. what do you know about: 1) row polymorphism 2) hot code reloading 3) the multithreading issue in ReasonML

john14:09:45

I know a good few clj devs that are into/professionally program ocaml/reasonML

Aleksander14:09:42

Nope, haven’t played with it a lot

borkdude14:09:41

Maybe @anmonteiro can give more information on this

ddellacosta14:09:49

@borkdude from this it looks like they are more flexible than in Haskell at least: you can apparently use a record without defining all the fields, and tweak the compiler to simply warn you: https://v1.realworldocaml.org/v1/en/html/records.html

ddellacosta14:09:29

oh, or maybe that’s just pattern matching? Not sure

john14:09:38

@gtrak also works in the ocaml space

john14:09:14

What's the "multithreading issue"?

borkdude14:09:11

no parallelism

mpenet14:09:13

it's super early days for multicore, not sure I'd rely on it or plan to do so in the near future

mpenet14:09:46

I meant about the ocaml-multicore project

john14:09:27

not bad as a thing that compiles to js though

john14:09:39

mostly single threaded anyway

mpenet14:09:39

ocaml is a beautiful language, but it's platform dev is arguably super slow and the community not so big and generally a bit fragmented (multiple "core" libraries, tooling is so so, etc etc)

borkdude14:09:11

what is FB would massively push this language?

borkdude14:09:48

and what do you mean with platform dev super slow? I heard they have a very fast compiler, much faster than GHC. A common complaint about GHC is that it’s slow for big projects

mpenet14:09:50

sure, but right now appart from Jane's Street there's not much pushing happening

mpenet14:09:05

I meant the advancement of the language/compiler

mpenet14:09:18

multicore for instance has been in the works for an eternity

borkdude14:09:49

maybe they should compile to the JVM or BEAM then 😉

mpenet14:09:15

there are already some ml flavors for BEAM: alpaca-lang

john14:09:28

From what I heard, some changes to the core language renders large swaths of written code broken

john14:09:52

And lib maintainers are constantly trying to catch up with core to keep things unbroken

mpenet14:09:32

ocaml is fine, if you think about it the situation is not worse than python's GIL, but that's something to be aware of

ddellacosta14:09:29

I don’t know much about Python--is the GIL single-threaded or something? I vaguely remember hearing about that

mpenet14:09:32

I'd be more worried about the ecosystem/tooling. Last time I used it it did require quite a lot of effort to have a decent env/routine

mpenet14:09:07

but maybe Reason solves some of that now and also "dune", but that last one didn't exist back then

john14:09:08

@ddellacosta yeah, python has green multi-threading, which requires the GIL thing, so not true parallelism by default, IIUC.

ddellacosta14:09:21

gotcha, thanks

john14:09:19

Upon further research, I'm reading that python can spin up OS threads, but the GIL locks them in turn to prevent inconsistency.

borkdude14:09:27

on the other hand, the JVM doesn’t really have green threads I guess

john14:09:35

They're on their way

jsa-aerial20:09:02

What's even nicer is that fibers will make this totally transparent across os threads. Basically, this is a case of the 'best of both worlds'.

borkdude14:09:46

hmm, can’t reach any site on project Loom… did they pull the plug 😉

Aleksander14:09:31

there is a fairly recent talk from Oracles JVM languages summit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J31o0ZMQEnI

Aleksander14:09:47

the site of the summit is also down for the same reason 😕

Aleksander14:09:05

“We’re sorry, the http://java.net site has closed. ”

borkdude15:09:16

hmm, hard to find that loom site now

borkdude15:09:22

but thanks for the talk, might watch it soon