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2016-05-10
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martintrojer14:05:59

@borkdude: don't agree with you that F# == Scala

martintrojer14:05:01

its not even close

martintrojer15:05:36

sane type system

martintrojer15:05:08

proper pattern matching (case classes is not good enough)

martintrojer15:05:20

type providers (huge)

martintrojer15:05:44

quite a bit faster

martintrojer15:05:09

great immutable collections (that's not re-written on every other release)

martintrojer15:05:57

'Sane' OO primitives, for C# interrop

borkdude15:05:17

- Type system: it depends what you want from it. Scala's type system is more expressive, but saner, that's the question simple_smile. - Async: Scala has a good API around Futures. Won't they let you do more or less the same? - Type Providers: there is a similar effort in Scala (using macros) - OO primitives: they are not sane in Scala? I agree that F# feels better designed, but I don't see any big reasons to jump from Scala to F# or vice versa myself.

martintrojer15:05:00

tbqh, scala's type system is a total mess. 20-page type errors ayone?

borkdude15:05:35

@martintrojer: I have used Scala for 3 months now and I haven't had this experience yet

martintrojer15:05:01

Check out F# 'asynchronous workflows' nothing like it in scala

martintrojer15:05:27

Scala macros, comments not necessary I think

martintrojer15:05:01

OO is first class in Scala, not in F#. F# pushes you in the right direction.

borkdude15:05:09

yes, F# is more functional in this regard

borkdude15:05:35

I would choose it also if I had to choose from scratch. But then I would probably be back to Clojure. I actually went from F# to Clojure in 'hobby programming'.

borkdude15:05:50

I think async workflows were introduced after that. So my image of F# is still based on an early version, maybe it has evolved quite a bit.

martintrojer15:05:07

I have high hopes for CoreCLR

martintrojer15:05:21

almost there now (for F#)

borkdude15:05:27

The only thing I don't like of F# is that it runs on .NET. Also I don't know of any companies in the Netherlands who use it, so career wise I see no point in investing in it. For fun programming Clojure is still my favorite.

borkdude15:05:35

@martintrojer: what are the goals of CoreCLR?

martintrojer15:05:58

If there are no companies in the Netherlands that uses .NET I'll eat my hat simple_smile

borkdude15:05:42

@martintrojer: There are a lot of them, but they almost all do C#. I don't know any F# based companies. I was using F# already in 2006 or something and in ten years I haven't seen it grow here.

borkdude15:05:08

@martintrojer: For example, I don't know of any meetups here around F# but there are plenty around Scala. Weird, but true.

martintrojer15:05:40

Yeah, .NET communities / meet-ups quite small.

martintrojer15:05:44

The London one is great tho

borkdude15:05:05

A lot of F# in finance in the UK right?

martintrojer15:05:16

With CoreCLR I can write my web apps on my mac and run them on AWS tho.

martintrojer15:05:29

so, I'm not going into the traditional .NET 'space'.

borkdude15:05:34

@martintrojer: What do you think about Mono?

martintrojer15:05:50

I've suffered with mono for some many years

martintrojer15:05:01

I don't trust it

martintrojer15:05:07

CoreCLR will save me

borkdude15:05:13

@martintrojer: Just checking. I've tried it for a couple of times, but I gave up. It's basically why I don't use F#.

martintrojer15:05:37

Mono is mainly used in Unity (an ancient mega-patched version) and Xamarin (aot to iOS binaries)

martintrojer15:05:42

seems to work there

martintrojer15:05:03

as runtime for my F# webapps?

martintrojer15:05:49

Interestingly, M$ is doing .NET AOT assemblies -> binaries for UWP

martintrojer15:05:20

Ocaml? Will let you wait for that chapter of my blog series simple_smile

martintrojer15:05:37

can't spill all the beans here

martintrojer15:05:05

Facebook uses ocaml lots.

martintrojer15:05:51

Also, Elm totally changed today. Gutted to the core.

martintrojer15:05:51

Probably better for it, but sweeping changes

martintrojer15:05:10

Exciting future indeed

borkdude16:05:50

so I should be glad I didn't learn Elm yet?

seancorfield17:05:12

Ah, I’d stopped following Elm late last year… sounds like it’s time to pick it back up again? simple_smile

martintrojer18:05:50

I'm very happy with ELm so far

martintrojer18:05:18

I'm more productive in it (compared to Clojurescript)

arrdem21:05:26

Types joke goes here