not at all, I created https://sayartii.com/ completely by myself and about 97% of https://aceplace.com/

Hi @U0175247L06, appreciate your response. Do you consider yourself a "non-experience programmer"?

I'm a little confused about this question, anyone without experience in this field is not really going to get things done properly regardless of language. I would say I have a lot of experience, but I'm not a hobbyist programmer that spends any time doing open source projects or enjoys the work very much.

Sorry for not being clear. I mean by experience (5-10+ years) and non-experienced maybe less than 5 years. The premise of the question is that with experience you can build a small app easily with language. The same person (of course maye require a team)can build a large app relatively easier in Clojure than in other OOP languages. Whereas an inexperience programmer can build a small app relatively easier in Javascript than in Clojure. Anyway, Thanks again.

My first foray into clojure/script or any lisp was that 4 years into my career as a programmer I integrated a non trivial reagent component into an existing rails application within a week having knowing no react at all.

It's been a lot easier for me to deal with than Javascript since day one, just had a small amount of friction to wrap my head around functional programming.

Wow. That is indeed impressive

Also I just hired someone that has been primarily been doing typescript/javascript work and he's making enormous contributions to aceplace in his first two weeks with very minimal guidance.

I built my first clojure project as a re-write of a php application - from 20kloc to around 6kloc. This was after about a year of hobby experience programming

We've built a lot of our current stack on Clojure, and teaching it to both new and experienced programmers has been surprisingly easy

We have data analysts who haven't coded before, using clojure to design metrics

Do You guys have any good courses you can recommend?

> Whereas an inexperience programmer can build a small app relatively easier in Javascript than in Clojure I think that this presumes that people learn Javascript before learning Clojure. That is often the case, yes, but not always. I know a few people who started on Clojure, and I think the reverse may be true for them (finding ClojureScript easier than Javascript)

The main benefit of JS for a beginner is that there are a lot of tutorials out there, and native libraries to do everything. That's not necessary, but I suspect that it may help

A thing that perhaps doesn’t often get talked about is that what works (and the features required of your tech environment) when you’re building your POC/startup idea, might not be sufficient when/if your thing takes off. Eg, there’s been quite a few rewrites from Rails to other things because of performance. So, choosing a tech that lets you do intrumentation, monitoring, profiling etc is important. The JVM has a fairly good track record here. Also, choosing a tech which has prebuilt libraries for your non core stuff is also important, as is writing code in such a way that it’s easier to move off, should your tech-choice be a bad one (Flex, JSF)

My experience, trying to help folks learn Clojure over the last decade, is that folks with less OOP experience did better than folks with more OOP experience. For complete beginners, the Clojure language was fairly easy to learn (the obstacles tended to be the tooling/editors and the JVM infrastructure/ecosystem).