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2021-10-10
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walterl01:10:25

☝️ That thread got me thinking: how does Project Gemini's strive for simplicity resonate with Clojurians? https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/faq.gmi

pavlosmelissinos07:10:32

This article that describes the problem with the modern web resonates well with me: https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html I don't think project Gemini could replace it though, we've become too dependent on the features that make the web really complex.

p-himik09:10:30

A peculiar concept but I'm pretty sure it will forever remain a niche. The vast majority of content consumers don't care enough, the vast majority of content creators don't care enough either. And you can still easily create very simple HTML content served via regular HTTP.

p-himik09:10:05

> people will be able to "bihost" or "trihost" content Right, sure. When that content can be represented using any of the protocols. I find that funny - Drew himself posted one of this article both on the web and on Gemini, but the web version had a whole section with an embedded YouTube video. Which Gemini just can't do.

pavlosmelissinos09:10:00

Sorry, my last comment was a bit misleading. The modern web is undoubtedly really complex. Gemini is not meant to replace it, it was created to bridge the gap between gopher and the web. So yeah, of course Gemini's features are a subset of the web's. I would like to see an alternative to the web but that's almost impossible today and I agree that Gemini offers too little (because feature parity with the web wasn't part of its design requirements).

p-himik10:10:46

Of course, I haven't insinuated that web replacement is within Gemini's scope. It's just that it's yet another thing some group of people invents and uses within that group, IMO without any chance of wide adoption (however you might define that term). There are upsides to that (more tools, people working on something they like), and there are downsides (segmentation of content).

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dgb2311:10:38

I think it’s all still experimentation/exploration. From web development, protocols, browsers, operating systems to languages and vms and applications. It’s all in its infancy. It’s the wild west. There are very few things that we figured out. I think unicode and utf8 might be examples. HTTP? Not really, yet, it’s still growing and changing. Browser APIs? For sure not. Languages and runtimes? Not by a long shot. This stuff moves fast and is complex because it has to be. Imagine if we restricted ourselves now to one of these stripped down, sterilised alternatives. Now when we don’t know what the Web really is, when there is still a flood of conflicting, interesting and disruptive ideas. No thanks! I for one feel lucky to be some part of all of this and to witness what is happening. So, I think project Gemini is great stuff. Not my cup of tea at the moment but I think it’s an interesting and valuable thing to do. Not because I agree at all with the minimalism and rigidity of what they do - on the contrary, I very much disagree with that notion - but because it adds to the diversity, creates new paths to explore.

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pavlosmelissinos11:10:30

> IMO without any chance of wide adoption I agree @U2FRKM4TW, your average Joe will probably never even know what gemini is 😄 I just hope it sways talented people who have grown wary of the web and inspire them to come up with proper replacements for the missing use cases. Sure, the web has made so much content accessible but, on the flip side, IDEs in the browser, Electron and stuff like Google Meet feel like an abuse of this power (it's all about control but that's a discussion for another time). That's an interesting, definitely more optimistic take than mine @U01EFUL1A8M 😄

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Nikhil Warke03:10:08

> Their notion of repetition was so tightly connected to the idea of an associated controlled variable to be stepped up that they were mentally blocked from seeing the obvious.” This is what he’s saying here, the languages that they used, loops were always about stepping up a variable as an index into an array. -https://lispcast.com/the-humble-programmer/ While learning Clojure, I often feel hitting the boundaries of such mental blocks. Looking at other people's examples help a lot 😄