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So my 2012 macbook pro is getting near it’s end of life, so I was wondering which laptops do you recommend for programming.
For personal use and projects, I have a lenovo thinkpad T480s with a bunch of upgrades and linux. It’s really enjoyable. Reliable, lightweight but can handle a drop, nicest keyboard that a laptop can have, and afaik it;’s widely used by programmers. My work computer is a 2019 macbook pro, and it works well but IMO it’s not worth the price difference from the Lenovo. I also enjoyed my previous work computer more (Macbook Pro 2015), but I think that’s just because it had the escape key as an actual key.
I have an X extreme, and a work-issued T-series. The X is nice, but if I had to chose again, I would probably go for a T, if only because it feels sturdier.
If price is no issue, the new MacBook pros is solid. Wsl2 on Windows is pretty legit, and Linux runs on lots of stuff, so you have a lot of options. The Lenovo t495 is legit. So many options.
i'm on a t495, it just works. oh and i have all the ports to make mac boys drool. 😄
Is it really worth it to get a new macbook pro? I feel the only thing I would miss is the trackpad
I thought that too, but then I switched around from Linux to windows on a few different machines over the course of a year because I hated the Touch Bar and having no escape key, and while they all work, I just find myself screwing around less with my Mac to get it to where it is efficient for me.
I can work on any of them, I just have to tinker less on my Mac to get it to do what I want.
I suspect you'll like the thinkpad too. My opinions aren't that strong. Either will work well, and one is WAY cheaper.
Oh another thing I would really miss: font rendering. On mac, fonts display beautifully, not so on linux sadly.
Yea, there are lots of little mostly pointless little things that add up to enough irritation that the Mac price bump is worth it to me. I know it's stupid, but it's worth it to me.
I've been an Apple user since System 6 in the early '90s but I've been slowly switching over to Windows these last few years, and when my iMac dies, it'll get replaced with a Dell all-in-one I think. I want a full touch-screen. I've had a touch screen (Dell, Windows) laptop for seven years and I love it -- it's just too small/underpowered to do real work on -- and I just replaced my wife's iMac with a Dell all-in-one with a touch-screen and I love that.
I've been using WSL1 on the laptop for Clojure development as needed, along with the Powershell
clj/`clojure` (installed via Scoop), but on the iMac I still use Terminal for all that -- but I run Windows 10 on it too via Parallels Desktop and I do everything except hardcore dev on the Windows side.
Yep, I don't think any OS will put you in a bad place for dev. It's a great time to be a developer.
My iPhone also mostly runs Microsoft apps (Cortana, Bing, Edge, ToDo, Outlook) because they're just more reliable and better-featured than Apple apps -- and I'm about to replace my iPhone with an Android (I've had iPhones almost since they came out but I'm done with them now).
I don’t really like windows for development. Last time I checked the terminal UX was really bad.
I have Ubuntu as my shift-ctrl-1 shortcut in Windows terminal and Powershell as shift-ctrl-2 🙂
Yea, you can't really go wrong. I think if the way you work jives with Windows, then use it. If it is Linux, sick. Mac, awesome. It all works.
I can't use WSL2 yet -- neither of my Windows setups support it. WSL1 is fine, it's just a bit slow.
You have to kind of be aware of how it works to avoid surpises, but once you are used to it, it's sweet.
Microsoft really is quite a changed beast these days. So much open source and out-in-the-open development.
FWIW I had an XPS13 9360 that worked great, bought a new XPS13 9380 and I'm going to return it soon -- the new series overheats like crazy and according to Dell everything is working as intended
Awesome I would love to get some feedback especially about how Linux works on it. I was planning to buy a Lenovo as well
(overheats like crazy == 100c after 10s of 2 cores maxing out, and the cooling system can't do anything about it even after clock speeds get throttled down to <2ghz)
Yeah, I've heard a lot of complaints about Dell but I've had them for years with no problems. The same is true of most brands I think. I've had horrible experiences with Toshiba, HP, and... I think it was Fujitsu maybe? But other people swear by some of those...
the support used to be quite good but now it's horrific, it took me a full month to get them to accept the return, they kept blaming the problem on the software I was using, even though I made it clear that there was no specific software causing the problem
in the meantime they arranged for a motherboard replacement which did absolutely nothing and took 10 days to happen, as the engineer kept ghosting me after calling saying that he'd show up on the day
the engineer even forgot to reattach the microphone cable to the new motherboard so the visit not only didn't fix any of the issues, it introduced new ones
horrific experience all in all, I've been really happy with dell laptops for years before but I'm never going to be their customer again
but I can attest to win10 with wsl2 being really good, I've been an exclusively linux user since 2008, but since October I've been doing all my dev on wsl, it's really great
So what I do is my laptop runs Linux. And my gaming PC runs windows because they have a monopoly on that mostly
However, I recognise that microsoft thesedays is certainly a different org that years ago, a sentiment echoed by Sean too. And I recognise the value they put back into the whole computing ecosystem more than they ever did
so, I'm not anti-microsoft, nor anti-windows, it's simply that I'm far far far more productive, comfortable and happier with Unix OS's, I primarily use Arch linux, with a mix of ubuntu and freebsd in my fleet of deployments (at home and at work) - and my laptop runs Arch
used linux from '00 to '08 on work machines, then had 3 years of mac (which ended up me running everything in a virtualbox with debian, since that was what my servers were running and there was no point to fight mac issues + not be able to debug linux issues). that was followed by not volunteered windows usage (microsoft took over the company i worked for, company vpn required windows for normal operations). i ended up doing a lot of stuff in a virtualbox .... which eventually lead to my departure from the company, back on linux only since 2015. don't really miss the "oh you have to virtualbox / some other vm tech to do your work well".
all the operating systems are decent, but there is little point to fight native extension libraries on mac or windows if my servers don't use the specific versions.
less of an issue with java, big hurdles if you get to scripting languages that get picky with their native extensions and their versions / deps hell 🙂
I suspect that my leaning toward "nice" UIs with *nix under the hood (or at least alongside) dates back to working exclusively on a wide variety of *nix flavors starting back in 1979 and just being so happy to have something nicer to use than the clunky old window managers that I'd been forced to work with... 🙂
pretty sure that if i'd write c# stuff for windows servers - i would use a windows desktop
(and that was all C at the time, C++ starting in the early '90s, about when I bought my first Apple machine for home use!)
My first experience of Unix was Xenix - by microsoft, so I have something to thank them for there at least 🙂
compared to minix and linux it was pretty horrid, but it supported the terminal classes that my high school was running
@bronsa i'm sorry to hear about your experiences with dell -- i had a hardware failure just yesterday and was considering trying dell this time around. do you have any thoughts about alternatives?
i used to use thinkpads but with the various backdoor-like things, i'm wary of going lenovo. great keyboards and other input though -- at least on the high end.
i have seen a lenovo with a broken screen ... but the reasoning was easy, it was smashed in the airplane above head cargo door by a few times 😄
i wipe my lenovos with fresh linux installs ... no (visible at least) backdoors that i can tell after that 🙂
If you're worried about backdoors, then you would need to source, build the laptop yourself
most of the recent machines that i have had have had intel wifi cards ... google image search is not very assuring https://www.google.com/search?q=intel+wlan+%22made+in%22&client=ubuntu&channel=fs&sxsrf=ACYBGNQk6jxcxBMqJwR59hM8G0T8o4r36g:1577302432667&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=9nbTjgNSs0qU4M%253A%252CXIEphFBugdOluM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSNU5t5Qa7cOntDmyBH3CS5_KMK-A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc_M65xdHmAhUNkMMKHVv5AIoQ9QEwD3oECA8QBg#imgrc=lU98_HHc6plz9M:&vet=1
at least looking at that google image link from estonia - first 12 or so images all had "made in china" written on them
when i'm concerned about network stuff, i use wired ethernet -- i also have some stuff from thinkpenguin. but anyway, the point for me atm, is that when a company repeatedly does something despite public feedback, it's not the sort of behavior you want to encourage.
i don't think you understand, this stuff is hard wired onto your motherboard, it has direct memory access over your machine
there are very few hardware parts which at current prices are profitable to be built outside of south-east asia regions
i was just pointing out that operating system backdoors may at least be visible to you 🙂, at hardware level i would consider all things possibly compromised. if you want to trust something - have an offline mfa device to secure things 🙂
yes ... one person builds an android phone mfa auth, other person runs that in their pc in an emulator
by far the biggest backdoor is the Intel Management Engine, or AMT, which has known, public exploits. And that is an american company.