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Would like some thoughts as an Indie Dev: Working on a language learning platform, would like to work on it full-time, do you reckon making a small kickstarter page that offers one year at a greatly reduced rate (early subscriber plan) would be helpful? not an actual kickstarter TM but my own version where people could pay ~20% of the cost of the subscription for a year and help me invest more time into it


language = computer programming language, or natural language? In either case, one year seems like a fairly long time commitment, or rather, depending upon how much you are thinking of charging, a fairly large $ commitment up front, if the content isn't there yet when you sign up.


Whether it is kickstarter-like raising of money or not, I guess the challenging part will of course be getting people willing to part with money for something that is early days.


I suspect that ~2 weeks worth of free content (or something on that order) as a sample of the quality level they can expect for money is probably a good form of advertising. Without the free sample, a customer must go on word of mouth or reviews, which for your site will not exist for a while.


But take whatever I say here with a grain of salt, since I haven't actually done this before 🙂


I’m still paying Tim baldridge $4 per month because I get value from his videos and don’t mind the small fee. Not sure if that’s a useful data point for you


interesting. i just saw that triplebyte is a sponsor of nrepl


@andy.fingerhut thanks andy, it's a human language (japanese) ... providing some sample material could be the right way to go forward, or maybe a video demo


not sure. its on the readme on github


A friend of mine is giving away his ticket to Haskell eXchange 2019, if you're interested or know someone, you can contact him (glmxndr on Twitter)


I've always wanted to have shell command history sorted by directory, is there such a plugin for zsh or some other shell?


I tried in the past for the same reason (getting commands by directory). Requires SQLite, but having command history in a DB is also generally useful. Can't remember why I stopped using it though...


spent 4-5 hours today trying to get the java11's fancy http client and client ssl authentication to work ... no dice 😞


the ssl context that happily works with the "good old" urlconnection just results in an awkward internal timeout in the java11 http client


anyone had success with that ever ? 🙂


I'm using the java 11 http client to do two way ssl


@markmarkmark did you have to do something special when setting up the sslcontext ?


because what ever i built by hand or even with apache client's sslcontextbuilder .... didn't seem to succeed. handshake seemed to suceed up to a point and then it just hanged 😞


I used bouncy castle to set up the sslcontext


or I guess, I used bouncycastle to read in the certs and stuff


well i have no problem on the reading side


since the same ssl context works totally fine for the urlconnection way of doing things


but there's something about the httpclient way that doesn't seem to either finish the handshake or tell the http layer to start it's work


I don't think I did anything crazy either... When I did it with the httpclient it was the first time I had ever done it so I can't really compare it to any other way


i even logged stuff down on the nginx server side and saw the client certificate being passed in


I just did

(.. (HttpClient/newBuilder) 
    (sslContext ssl-context)


that gave me an http client that let me do normal http requests and websockets


i tried to leave everything extra out and still get the odd hanging behavior , even more awkward that this is from a different machine


built the most basic client, most basic request and bodyhandler ... tried the sync "send" to make the request ... and there it freezes


• starts to learn rust • sees "mut" keyword • HISSSSS

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It is explicit, though, yes? As explicit as atom agent or ref in Clojure?


yes, just joshing, but it's in the first tutorial


I of course assumed it was going to be a heavily mutable reliant language


I am pretty sure Rust has much different idiomatic code styles than Clojure does for mutable data (I haven't done any Rust, so going by hearsay here)


right, I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near it, I'm just interested in expanding my knowledge and seeing what rust has to offer


mutability in rust isn’t nearly as bad because the borrow checker basically does the tracking that you normally have to do in your head


It's been a while since I've done C/C++, I assume the borrow checker is similar to Boost's auto_ptr for reference counts, but with mutability?


googles to see how off base I am


I’m not sure, I haven’t used C++ or Boost really


for me in rust the weird part was string vs String

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ah, auto_ptr was the "answer" to forgetting how many references you had to a pointer, so you'd use it as a proxy and it would adjust the reference count and clean up properly when all references are gone


but overall i liked it ... i just dont have problems that i need to solve at such low level


I wanted to at least check out what Tonsky loved so much about it


other than pure speed for competition code


i think it's beauty is safety


the ownership-lending model is pretty good


at least if you have traced enough segfaults for a lifetime 😄


that being said, segfault is better than just data corruption


Of the "new language every year" that I've learned in the last several years, Rust was definitely my favorite, probably because of my C++ background.


(other languages included: Elm, Go, Kotlin -- I did not like Go but I liked the other two... can't remember what else I've studied in the last several years...)

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Janne Sauvala22:09:52

Out of curiosity, what you didn’t like about Go? (I’m not very familiar with the language myself)


@UJZ6S8YR2 From a language design p.o.v. there's a lot to dislike (my background was language design and compiler development, back in the day, so I'm pretty fussy about languages!). It's more than I want to explain on a Friday afternoon but if you Bing/Google `what's wrong with go` or go is a horrible language I suspect you'll turn up other people's rants about it... 🙂


(that first search term isn't specific enough, it seems, but the second works great)


Oh wonderful! Someone has even taken the time to curate loads of articles criticizing Go!

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Janne Sauvala08:09:57

Oh, that’s kinda long list! Thank you Sean for finding that nice list 👌:skin-tone-2: Golang is on my bucket of languages I should learn. I have delayed learning it because I have heard other people also complaining about it. Even though I haven’t heard any “real” reasons than “it doesn’t have generics”. :thinking_face:


Wow! Are there similar collations of criticisms of other languages?


googles clojure is a horrible language

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kotlin would have been a sensation if it would have come out at java 1.4 times 🙂


Yeah, I wanted togo back to the times of college when I was doing 3D opengl programming with C++. While I've been dabbling in graphics code in clojure, it just doesn't seem as natural to me, the nature of it just doesn't fit as well as I'd like, but I haven't gone super deep


I do think the repl is the greatest part of learning graphics related stuff in clojure, no need to wait for compile and re-run on something that may not even work


many graphics toolkits are based on mutation of objects


and they dont usually care about how they "got were they are" , so many virtues of clojure are lost


pretty often it shows too, many games are nailing the hell out of a single cpu core ...


since going parallel with that mutation world is hard as hell


I was messing around with pico8 which was fun, very minimal and lots of restrictions on what you can do forcing you to be mindful of how little resources you have


proving that you can write endlessly about what you don't like and barely anything about ones you do.


also "given seemingly infinite choices, you will complain about there being too many"


I wonder where the separation of "initially love a language X, then realizing that it's not for them". I wonder if it's usually when using it in a job capacity, rather than a personal interest capacity.


Hard to say @theeternalpulse... I've used about a dozen languages in production and about another dozen "for pleasure"/as a learning exercise (on top of the dozen I knew coming out of university) and each of those batches is a mixture of like/don't like.


But as I noted in that thread, my background is language design and compiler development (back in the day) so I'm kind of opinionated on languages 🙂


of yeah, nothing's perfect, I'm just wondering if a lot of people "fall out of love" with a language more often then they just reject it as valid. I hear quite a bit about clojure critiques from people that were once very passionate about it, go I feel was one of the earlier "new" languages that got a lot of passionate fans, so I wasn't expecting an encyclopedia of it's flaws.


Most of the critiques I hear about Clojure tend to be more about "I found these <insert small number> of features weird, complained about them, the core team told me 'wontfix'/'asdesigned', so now I'm going to write a nasty blog post about how the core team are meanies!"


i.e., they're not really critiques of the language per se.

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yeah, I actually wanted to clarify no the ones complaining about housekeeping or community gripes


I have almost no critiques of Clojure-the-language... even after more than eight years of production use...


I have plenty of critiques of most other languages 🙂 but even then, just because I have critiques of a language doesn't mean I don't like it overall.


same here, minus the production use, I think the only gripe is outside language features and web development, there's not much material for many other applications, but that of course could just be it's not greatly suited for the applications I'm interested in just yet


Heck, by pure coincidence of the jobs I took, I ended up using CFML (ColdFusion) on and off for most of the last two decades as well as other languages and I don't actually dislike it even tho' I have a whole encyclopedia of critiques of it! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: