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#off-topic
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2019-08-12
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jjttjj15:08:07

When publicly posting a request for code review for a library I'm working on, which is better: a brief message of "this is what I'm working on, take a look and let me know your thoughts" or a small-novel-sized post of my current thoughts and questions on this project? I'm having trouble getting into clear specific questions without it getting extremely long and I'm thinking about just putting it out there without much comment.

gerred15:08:02

@jjttjj In a project I work on, I put a mix of that into a README and then a Github project that has the current ideas of the roadmap.

gerred15:08:21

those project cards can be arbitrarily long without being tied to issues.

gerred15:08:42

but now you've also captured it in an actionable way even for yourself, by opening issues/labeling them (`help-wanted` and good-first-issue are great labels to have)

gerred15:08:15

then when you post it, just mention that all of those important things in your brain are here, there, and over yonder in the repo.

jjttjj15:08:35

Cool, thanks for the tip, I will checkout the projects feature

gerred15:08:59

you can put projects on the repo too, we use an org-level project only because we have multiple repos that are all interrelated and need to be reference-able once we convert them into issues.

jjttjj15:08:33

good to know!

seancorfield16:08:40

@jjttjj Also, there's a #code-reviews channel here that is a good place to have some of the "thoughts and questions" discussions around code under review.

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Quest19:08:37

Seems that history on https://clojurians-log.clojureverse.org/ is minimal & only goes to 2016 -- anyone know the story of why it was cut (and if there's a replacement?)

Quest19:08:44

Hmm. Looks like the project is a little stalled. Unfortunate -- due to Clojure's smaller set of learning resources, the Slack logs have been invaluable to me over the years. If @plexus is still around and/or has interest, I'd be willing to chip into a montly Patreon or something similar to get it up & running again

manutter5119:08:03

There’s also Zulip, which has archived logs from some of the channels

alexmiller19:08:51

https://ask.clojure.org to ask questions in a permanently searchable manner fyi...

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eval202020:08:10

The slack-archive at Clojurians-Zulip exists since Feb and can be found here: https://clojurians.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/180378-slack-archive

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jjttjj20:08:38

I'm glad there is ask.clojure now, but it is pretty tragic that the slack logs can't really be kept in a searchable manner. I think there will always be types of discussions that will be more appropriate for a chat room, or arise from them. The old clojure IRC logs are a real goldmine of interesting discussion that I stumble upon sometimes with google, and it's kinda sad that this is basically dead now due to slack's success

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jjttjj20:08:34

Zulip is cool but I feel it's kind of too late to get the whole community to move there in the way the people moved from IRC to slack

jjttjj20:08:04

I thought I read somewhere that there were GDPR related issues and it wasn't just a matter of the project being stalled

andy.fingerhut20:08:12

It is a certainty that the Clojure community will stop using Slack at some point in the future. Whether it moves to something else, or ceases to be, is a separate question πŸ™‚

eval202020:08:23

@jjttjj no need for moving. It’s about having a place that is more appealing to smaller communities (ie having a lower pace).

seancorfield20:08:07

@jjttjj There was some discussion around the GDPR implications of auto-logging from Slack to another location -- mostly around folks not necessarily knowing that what they post here, in an essentially private forum, might end up publicly searchable via Google when published on a logging site. There are questions about whether users need to be able to opt out of logging, whether the logging site needs to support the "right to forget" and so on. I don't know that anyone really knows the answers since a lot of the GDPR has yet to be tested in court.

carkh21:08:32

i don't know that the spirit of the law is to stunt open source communities. maybe showing a best effort in case someone would want to be removed, even after the fact would be good enough

andy.fingerhut22:08:06

What you say makes sense, but it also doesn't exactly encourage folks not wanting legal troubles to volunteer their time to spearhead those efforts. If they had clear answers to what was enough, before starting their volunteer efforts, it would be more likely to happen, I would guess.

carkh22:08:22

True enough.

carkh22:08:16

Though there is many other targets for such an action. Plenty of malicious compliance, or plain non compliance on juicier targets

carkh22:08:13

which are square in the intended target of the law

andy.fingerhut22:08:19

The existence of other targets doesn't exactly help one, if one is also targeted.

carkh22:08:09

true again, but where do we stop then, there is no certainty outside testing it in court

carkh22:08:52

taking the contrarian point of view

carkh22:08:35

do you say this "advocate of the devil" in english ?

andy.fingerhut22:08:55

I am simply saying that non-profit efforts are unlikely to be pushing for creating test cases, unless they are some organization like the ACLU that does that for their reason-for-being. They will instead wait, indefinitely, until someone else establishes case law for them.

carkh22:08:59

so no logs then =(

andy.fingerhut22:08:19

Well, unless you would like to go forward with it, or convince someone else to volunteer

carkh22:08:34

that was part of the discussion when deciding on slack

andy.fingerhut22:08:35

In the mean time, Zulip chat is logging things searchably, in the same gray-ish legal area.

carkh22:08:31

too bad zulip has only part of the channels, and i had little success with the search function there

carkh22:08:46

probably me not being used to it though

andy.fingerhut22:08:14

It is easy to enable logging for more channels on Zulip, for anyone, not just the admins, I believe. I can look up the message you must send to the Slack channel to start it happening.

carkh22:08:41

don't worry about it for me =)

carkh22:08:45

thanks though

carkh22:08:08

it would be lost in 2 weeks anyways !

andy.fingerhut22:08:22

Not on Zulip πŸ™‚

andy.fingerhut22:08:40

The message to send to a Slack channel is: /invite @zulip-mirror-bot

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Quest22:08:47

just to make sure I'm doing this right: 1.) create stream with same name on Zulip (i.e. onyx to match Slack #onyx 2.) on the Slack channel side, run /invite @zulip-mirror-bot (Is #1 actually necessary?)

Quest22:08:02

I notice that the #jackdaw stream doesn't exist on Zulip running the /invite responds with @zulip-mirror-bot is already in this channel, so I suspect I'm missing something here

andy.fingerhut23:08:38

I do not believe that step 1 is necessary.

andy.fingerhut23:08:18

The mirror channels/topics are "inside" of the top level slack-archive topic on Zulip

seancorfield00:08:24

@U22M06EKZ Andy is correct: do not create a stream on Zulip. Just invite the bot into the Slack channel you want mirrored -- most of them already have the bot but there may be some smaller, lower traffic channels that do not.

Quest00:08:14

I'm struggling to find the Slack archive for topics -- if I look at the #zulip stream, I see a slack archive header, but it doesn't contain the contents off any other channels. Even the Clojure stream doesn't seem to have a "slack archive" topic, so it must be elsewhere. Could either of you spell out exactly where I should look for say, the #cider archive history?

seancorfield01:08:58

If you search for a topic named for the Slack channel, that should also work: / then topic:cider (and press enter/return) that should find the #cider channel archive.

seancorfield01:08:46

I just did /topic:off-topic<return> and found these messages at the of that topic πŸ™‚

Quest01:08:46

@U04V70XH6 Figured it out, thanks! I had to make sure to put a full stream:slack-archive topic:cider, but now I can view any channel. That's awesome for some of the smaller libraries I've been using (Onyx & Jackdaw come to mind). Appreciate the help & work it took to get the Zulip bot online!

Quest01:08:37

(I documented this in the #zulip slack archive topic, so hopefully helps in the future too)

carkh22:08:45

the rust community is on discord

carkh22:08:40

I didn't know it could also do syntax highlight

carkh22:08:52

anyways too late now, that boat has sailed

andy.fingerhut23:08:12

Every person who chooses to go on-line and engage in conversation makes their own individual choice of what medium to use, every time. Clojurians Slack is currently a popular choice, but it will not always be so. It could change next year, for all we know.

carkh23:08:52

slack is the de facto official clojure chat. I may not like it, but I don't see that changing any time soon. Not a huge deal if it wasn't for this logging issue

gerred22:08:19

zulip's cool. i've been enjoying spectrum too for the same reasons I enjoy zulip

gerred22:08:35

i feel like information gets lost way too easily in Slack

gerred22:08:33

spectrum seemed a little more accessible than zulip too