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2019-03-26
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The news is saying that slack is allowing employers to read private messages? Does anyone know if this is true? I just found out about it.
How do I know what information is being sold?
my previous previous company paid for good slack. I have every expectation that they could read everything sent on the platform
Ya. But it is not clear. Which messages?
That's a serious breach of trust
Because I might not be working for a boss... how about my past messages
I am not at work
It sounds like they are selling my data
My entire slack
oh. i don't believe that's what they are talking about. the spaces are not connected
This is blurring the lines
Well... I cannot assume that
If they violate my privacy, what is to stop them from selling all my data
They weren't even upfront to begin with
Expect a certain level of privacy because it is a direct message
From my data being sold
It is my data
Is it peer to peer?
I haven't used irc in years
Thanks, I will get up to date on IRC
More information about the employer/DM issue, in case other folks are also interested https://mashable.com/2018/03/21/slack-direct-message-privacy-change/#vSqjj8nrwaqz -- note that it applies to paid plans only and was previously available under compliance exports anyway (in the same way that companies can already read all emails you send/receive via the corporate email system). At this point, I would request any further discussion happen in a thread on this message rather than in the main channel. Thank you.
In particular, that article explains how to see whether your employer has applied for an export that includes DMs, as well as how to have individual DM conversation deleted after just one day.
Ya. But now I have to do all this extra research because Slack is violating privacy.
Slack publishes their terms of service here: https://slack.com/privacy-policy
Pretty much any on-line service you use has its own terms of service, which you are given a link to and must agree to when creating an account. Whether you read and understand them or not is another matter, as is whether they are accurate reflections of what the other entity actually does in practice.
Ya, but 99% of people are not lawyers. It is not upfront of them to do this.
It is completely up front. Whether you understand the terms you agree to as a person who has reached age of majority is your legal responsibility.
There are published articles that one can read to learn more about what the terms of service actually mean in practice, and which ones that "the typical person" may want to be wary of, but if you are more vigilant with your privacy than "the typical person", you will likely not enjoy the typical terms for an on-line service.
And, if you really, really care, you can hire an attorney to explain them to you. Not cheap, of course.
There are organizations pushing for standards to describe such terms of service in a more summarized form, e.g. something more like the creative-commons style licenses with a small set of "bullet points" or "features", but I would expect that those run into the issue that they are not legally enforcable contracts.
No one in my college class will use slack or facebook
Generation below me is sick of the privacy violations
Slack is an option in life.
Online privacy is pretty much an illusion and always has been. And in the tech space, a lot of online communities try to ensure a publicly searchable archive exists so information/knowledge is not lost (public logs exist for many (most?) IRC channels, this Slack has a @U055W814A in most channels that archives messages for browsing/searching elsewhere -- and @UFNE73UF4 to archive messages into the Clojurians Zulip instance so they can easily be browsed/searched within Zulip).
If you don't want someone to know what you said, don't say it in a place where it is recorded.
My friends are using ssl p2p
Certain cities record audio on the street now. Kinda of hard to not speak unless in the woods
I can understand folks pushing back on Facebook: "you are the product" is pretty much how all these large, free, ad-supported platforms work.
Assume everything you send to a web site can be recorded.
The technology exist. See "Get Smart" circa 1965. Cone of silence. I have three.
Yes, I understand. I just talk tech on here.
Is it a movie?
(in case it is not clear, I am completely joking about having three, and suggesting getting one)
The more we come to rely on voice-activated technology, the more devices we will have constantly "listening in" on everything we say.
I am looking at moving to South America
Yeah, I'm not buying one of those for my house any time. Just too weird for me. I do occasionally wonder what my iPhone might be doing.
Want to escape it
I sometimes wonder what George Orwell would have thought if you told him that in the 2010s, millions of people would pay for the privilege of installing listening devices in their homes.
It is becoming easier by the day to just vote with our feet
Just whisper the secrets in your friend's ear while on the street near the listening devices. You'll be fine.
Haha. That is how people lived in USSR
Completely different so far in the USA. Read the Gulag Archipeligo, if you can stomach it.
I have a few friends who fled USSR. They said this happened before.
Ya, torture and stuff
The primary difference is that even if someone is recording, there are only a few things you can say and have recorded that will get you thrown in jail.
While many, many things would get you thrown in jail, or worse, in the USSR.
This is just the begining of it
If you are already paranoid and want to be even more so, these two Strange Loop talks are worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ypqzOShZs&list=PLcGKfGEEONaCIl5eU53uPBnRJ9rbIH32R&index=40 and https://www.thestrangeloop.com/2016/government-hacking-and-human-rights-the-why-and-the-how.html
It will be expanded each year
It depends on the laws and the people who enforce them. Recording what you say doesn't hurt you at all, legally, if what you say is not a crime.
Love Strange Loop
I am worried they will retroactively change the laws
And they can do so. They reteoactively changed tax law in California.
So far there are still plenty of people who are vehemently against that, in places of power in the USA. Could that change? Sure, lots of things could change. Be informed, be active where you are interested and willing.
I am less worried about whether law changes are retroactive, than whether they violate individual rights. If they violate individual rights, I don't care if they are retroactive or not.
retroactive vs. not is just icing on the cake (or whatever the opposite of those things are)
They violated my rights
But I don't want to discuss openly
And I don't mean a little violation
I also have friends who had their lives ruined by rogue agents
We may agree on the definition of individual rights, and what constitutes a violation of them, in some details, but I doubt you will find many people who believe there is a government that never violated anyone's rights. That doesn't mean there is no difference between governments -- they are huge. The fact that you still (mostly) have freedom of speech in the USA means you have the ability to talk about changes you think should be made, without being thrown in jail for speaking about it.
I mean "disagree" rather than "agree"
So as far as I understand it the Free Software Foundation considers EPL and GPL to be incompatible. Does Clojure being EPL 1 then mean that it would be impossible (or at least breaking licensing) to write a clojure lib and release it under GPL? This has been nagging me for a while and I’ve done some research but can not exactly say that I’ve landed on a solid answer
the eclipse website states among other things: > Based upon the position of the Free Software Foundation, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where linking exists between code made available under those licenses. The above applies to both GPL version 2 and GPL version 3
[not a lawyer] I don’t think you are creating a derivative work of clojure when writing a library written in clojure
I think there may also be potential to argue that if you just distribute as source code, you have never linked anything and it is your users that are linking
it’s somewhat of a crap situation, you apply a license to your code for the explicit purpose of wanting to know what would happen if it went to court…and with the current landscape that just does not seem to be possible. Maybe I’ll see if I can find an actual lawyer to ask…
this question was sparked by a partner of mine who feels strongly about free software…to a point where clojure is not an option for him if it is not possible to GPL things written in it. So it’s not just a theoretical…
oh, just the linkage idea with regard to gpl is almost always discussed in relation to linking native code (C)
https://lwn.net/Articles/548216/ is interesting, but resolves nothing
If you ever do get an answer from a lawyer I’m sure a lot of people (or at least I) would be glad if you made that info available to everyone.
I can try, but then an answer from a lawyer is no guarantee that the courts will agree…and it might depend on country/jurisdiction etc…
i thought most of this stuff wasn't tested in court so lawyers only have arguments and no case law
@hiredman thanks for that article, I will add it to our internal discussion on this
interesting: https://bzdww.com/article/163937/ article on Fuchsia OS
Well, I'm pretty sure I've seen them... but the language:
The EPL and the GPL are not compatible in any combination where the result would be considered either: (a) a derivative work (which Eclipse interprets consistent with the definition of that term in the U.S. Copyright Act ) or (b) a work based on the GPL code, as that phrase is used in the GPLv2, GPLv3 or the GPL FAQ as applicable. Further, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where source code under those licenses are both the same source code module. [emphasis mine]
Based upon the position of the Free Software Foundation, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where linking exists between code made available under those licenses. The above applies to both GPL version 2 and GPL version 3."