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Daniel Hines00:01:26

I’ve heard good things about ElementaryOS on the points you’re looking for (little config, good UX), but can’t attest to it myself.


Pop OS seems interesting, and I've heard good things of ElementaryOS, luckily I can test them out, just need to make some boot disks. guess I'm buying some cheap usb keys this weekend.


I just am dreading getting the drivers working. I am upgrading from the developer edition of the xps 13 which had dell supported drivers


I'm using an XPS 15, everything so far just works driver-wise


That's the one I have now, I am moving to an x1 carbon.


Dell hardware has always worked surprisingly solid on Linux. You're fine.


Speaking of distros, has anyone used ?


I've read about it, but it seem more like a DevOps distro than a desktop distro.


Related, Guix popped up in HN the other day it's nixos + scheme + 100% libre software. I guess it won't work without some time investment and a carefully picked machine (think drivers etc)

Vincent Cantin15:01:39

It hurts a lot to go back to JS once we are used to Clojure. A lot more than I thought.

Vincent Cantin15:01:59

(I needed to externalize this somewhere)


Can relate. I never got into front-end before ClojureScript that much


I sometimes wonder if heavy Clojure use impairs our ability to deal with tedious tasks.

Daniel Hines16:01:15

I believe it does, at least at an emotional level.


funnily, before I started writing Clojure every day I used to go to great lengths to write JS in a functional style. Since then, the handful of times I’ve written some JS I ended up favoring a much more imperative style


“eh, I’ll just throw this in a for loop with a global let…” ¯\(ツ)

☝️ 15

Same actually


Trying to do JS functionally is just fighting the grain


It's not really. The language is designed to support functional programming. The issue is that too many developers struggle with functional programming so a lot of the libraries out there are not written functionally and thus break in odd places with your functional code.

Rahul Ballal22:01:10

And I feel the problem might get worse with people adopting TypeScript and coding with a OO mindset.

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Agreed. Like was said here, it's not the lack of types that is the issue. It's the immutable vs mutable that's causing the real issues. Types can be helpful, but they aren't as useful as people talk them up to be.

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People really need to write code in the paradigm that the language is designed for. Part of the problem here is JS being a "hybrid language", which causes these sort of mismatches where you can find imperative and functional code in the same place. They just aren't compatible.


I believe this also highlights another important issue going on - people seem to have forgotten that there is a distinct difference between a "Software Developer" and a "Software Engineer". Software Engineers are concerned with the connections and thus interactions between systems. What we're talking about here is one of those interactions. It's not getting talked about enough because Software Developers are told that this isn't their job to think about such things and it isn't.

Rahul Ballal02:01:23

In an effort to make the JS more approachable for Java/C#/C++ guys... people love the fact that JS is turning into Java .. only on the surface.

Rahul Ballal02:01:39

it a weird world we live in


Yeah the mismatch schism is what I meant by my original statement here. If you go “functional” in JS it has to be so across the board.


At that point you might as well use CLJS, PureScript or Elm


@U053V4R5N In that case, definitely agree.

Vincent Cantin17:01:34

Exactly. In JS, when programming in a large team, it feels like every function written by someone else is waiting until you don’t watch to backstab your state, and it smells like your code is dead-but-it-does-not-know-it-yet.

Vincent Cantin17:01:00

Going back to JS after Clojure, means having some trust issues.


Some people that leave Clojure for other languages like Haskell look back on Clojure similarly. Not being able to rely on type safety makes them feel unsafe.

Daniel Hines21:01:17

I think that's valid, but the long term answer to that is spec, right?


:kool-aid-man: “oh yeah!“ 😉


I wish there was a larger push towards immutable state in the js diaspora, alongside or instead of the popularity of typing like Flow or TypeScript.

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Granted, I’m not a huge fan of static typing, but it’s always felt like mutable state has been the productivity destroyer with js code, not a lack of types.

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Daniel Hines22:01:44

I try to be open minded - Software is an incredibly broad space, and there is much room for differing approaches and opinions - but I just can't understand why immutability isn't the default in general purpose programming

Daniel Hines23:01:04

Maybe it will be in 50 years.