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I believe one is every man is an island unto himself? Ie, no community building and sharing libraries but instead always write your own stuff


The other is thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife


I mean what are the two most important things to prevent the Lisp curse


diet and exercise

😆 8

I’d guess one is “Just Say No” — features don’t get added just because people like them or want them, they have to match certain design principles and philosophy


Common Lisp had a “just say yes” attitude?


Hmm, couldn’t say


Just guessing based on the “Lisp Curse” being uncontrolled proliferation of ad hoc implementations


funny that it mentions something about breaking reading and the previous point in the list mentions exactly that possibility with broken keywords pr representation


that said he's right about reader macros


any reason there aren’t any 3840x2400 screens? currently I have a 1920*1200 Dell monitor. If I were to upgrade to 4k I would like to keep that ratio


Nobody likes 16:10, for some reason

eccentric J18:09:56

Anyone pretty familiar with Heroku? I’m considering moving my company’s software to it but have some aspects I’m not sure if Heroku can support so I’d like to ask some questions.


Lot's of clojure folks have used heroku over the years. It's gotta fairly mature clojure story, fwiu

eccentric J18:09:20

Ah that’s good, unfortunately our codebase is not Clojure based….yet. Though I did launch a tiny clojure slack-request-invite app with it which was a dream all the way through.


Isn't Heroku expensive? compared to AWS.


I would love to try out Heroku as well but I want to use Datomic :S gotta make some reading though.

eccentric J18:09:14

That is true but right now we’re paying waaaayyy too much to a datacenter hosting company and the CTO above me left. I don’t have the system administration experience, knowledge or skill to do AWS proper and it would be a large risk and increase in responsibilities to keep AWS services setup correctly. That’s where I think Heroku would be a good fit for us. Significantly cheaper than what we’re paying now but a lot less time required to manage it.


Developer experience is great with Heroku. It costs more than AWS but you concentrate more on your apps and less on infrastructure.


It’s a PaaS so you don’t get nearly as much flexibility though

eccentric J18:09:09

That is apparent but I don’t think our app is that complicated and the scalability it offers is still more flexible and cheaper than what we have now.


I will have a sick app one day. Hopefully no one will build the same thing Lol


But I might go the Heroku Path in the beginning. Seems really smooth


What db do you use? Heroku has awesome support for Postgres.

eccentric J18:09:33

Fortunately we’re using Postgres


@jayzawrotny what language are you currently using at your company?

eccentric J18:09:49

Currently it’s python + django, and JS but I’ve slipped some clojurescript into some of our tooling.

eccentric J18:09:43

My major question atm is: If we do use Heroku’s postgres offerings, would we be able to run wal-e to backup to an s3 bucket we can access? I know Heroku offers that on its own already but from what I’ve found that s3 backup is not directly accessible. Our development environments are based on accessing that, sanitizing it, and loading it into our dev machines.


If your app is written like this it’s good fit for Heroku.


You might need to redo you dev env setup if you use heroku postgres, which I warmly recommend


Backups are easily accessible through the command line utils so it shouldn’t be too big of a deal

eccentric J18:09:48

I think the limit of those is like 20gb though right? Ours is 30gb+ right now

eccentric J18:09:55

For local development what would you recommend? The goal from my perspective is to end up with a local instance of Postgres with a sanitized data set. Currently I’ve setup our dev environment by composing docker containers.


We used docker-compose to setup dev envs. Heroku shares their docker images somewhere on Github so you can run pretty similar setup compared to the real one

eccentric J19:09:11

Ah great, docker-compose is definitely what I’m using now. Switching out the images should be no problem.


I think they had some alternative way to deal with bigger dbs, but can’t remember what it was called


You can also write a custom worker that periodically dumps your db to S3.


But that’s a bit of an effort :)

eccentric J19:09:06

Hah yeah, that’s what I was thinking too as a worst case scenario which even then isn’t terrible. As long as I can get wal-e to connect to the database and an s3 bucket that should work if a better solution can’t be realized.


I’m not familiar with wal-e but I guess there are several “stream from db to S3” solutions out there you can leverage if wal-e doesn’t work out

eccentric J19:09:15

That’s what we’re using currently and is what Heroku uses behind the scenes in their Continuous Protection but you’re right, I’ve even heard that might be better anyway


Need to go now but hopefully this was somehow helpful! I encourage you to try Heroku, that way you’ll find out if it works for you or not.

eccentric J19:09:30

Good idea, my plan is to just try and get things running on my own account to get a feel for it. Price it out to scale it up and then go from there. Thanks for the help.