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Hello. On the net I've found few videos where companies like AirBnB show their offices (like here: ) which, besides all, have huge entertainment/relax capabilities such as kitchens/bars, music rooms etc (even puppies are there). As it seems, many other companies are also similar in sense of offices Do such environments really help to build better products and pay for themself (i.e. that someone should also clean/service them etc), or this is just 'cause companies are so caring regards developers etc? (I've been always working only remotely, so I'm asking)


@andrewboltachev My cynical answer to that is that tech companies try to make their offices as "home-like" as possible to keep their employees at work longer hours. They offer free food, laundry service, and all sorts of other things so employees ever have to leave the office (some places even offer private rooms with beds so employees can take a nap). It all "sounds" wonderful but it's really about exploiting their employees 😐


There's also a big "brogrammer" culture at a lot of these places, reinforced by the availability of alcohol and indoors sports (table football etc).

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a less cynical answer is that it is super hard to recruit people so they do this in the hopes that they can compete on talent


it isn’t really about productivity once you are in the office


Well, perhaps Silicon Valley companies shouldn't collude on compensation plans across the valley? They got caught for that with a class action suit (Adobe, Apple, Google, some others).


I left Adobe in 2007 and the class action overlapped my time there -- so it was going on for years.


you don’t make unicorns by cutting a bunch of checks 😛


Silicon Valley just likes to think it has unicorns.


(I live here and I hate Silicon Valley culture!)


btw @lee.justin.m from what I've seen also there's fair amount of re-specialized/less experienced people there. like 2 years of coding, just taken some courses etc


or 1 year. 2 is probably already serious


i.e. I'm not sure if there's a deficit of developers


well the housing situation here also may require young single people who are willing to extend the college dorm life, so that’s part it. in SF proper decent housing is above $1000 sq/ft almost everywhere now so experienced people with families are very very expensive


huh... that's huge number


freeway accessible places (which are therefore livable by director level people who work for the big boys) are insanely expensive. glen park homes go for $1500/1600 or more. palo alto is as expensive as manhattan now. it’s just ludicrous


i’m trying to bootstrap my own company, but it’s going to have to be 100% remote because of the housing situation


aha, and someone still has money for all that offices. i.e. it's huge cost. so that means only big companies do


i.e. ones you've heard about at least once...


it’s driven by venture and the blue chips. i thought venture was going to slow down but then softbank was like, um no let’s dump $100B into the market and then go raise another $100B


I live in the East Bay, in what used to be a cheaper neighborhood. My 3 bed, 2 bath 1,500 sq ft house (on a 10,000 sq ft lot) went from just under $400k in 2001 -- when I bought it -- to nearly $900k right now. My mortgage including property taxes is just under $3k a month.


And to be honest, where I live is still considered "affordable by Bay Area standards".


(oops, typo in sq ft)


that was an important edit lol. i was about to say!


at those prices “east bay” would have meant “fresno”


Most every lot around us is 5,000 sq ft. We have a double-size lot. That was in my mind.


@andrewboltachev FWIW, salaries in the Bay Area are also crazy high, to match the crazy high cost of living. Entry level engineers, fresh out of college get $80-100k easily, and senior positions are often north of $200k. But unless you live really close to work, commutes are awful (many people commute up to two hours each way in order to live in more affordable areas).


Things were a lot more sane after the dot-com bubble burst for several years, but it's gotten worse and worse.


Remote work might be a solution


If I didn't own my home here -- for 17 years -- I wouldn't stay. I've worked remotely for a decade, so I could move anywhere.


@seancorfield ah, that matters, if you add prolonged hours in the office


When I first moved here, my commute was an additional 3-4 hours a day on top of work. Then I joined Macromedia and was able to use public transit so it was consistently 1-2 hours a day which was much better (and I could read -- or work -- on my commute).


But young, single guys don't have ties to home so they don't care so much -- they can work late, go out with their colleagues in the evening, it's all work, all the time, but it's a party, and they're paid well, and it doesn't matter that they have to go home to sleep in a "broom closet".


But for anyone not in that group, it sucks the life out of you 😞

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(anyway, I must get going -- due at the vet in 20 minutes, then shopping for the cats, then maybe a beer on the deck! 🙂 )


thanks, it's very ineteresting @seancorfield


indeed, looks like many companies in that way or another try to make "all time work". even remote

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