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What keyboard do you use for coding? I use mac magic keyboard, but i feel it is terrible. Especially when I have to push button longer for shortcuts. While i can only press button during common writing is fine i guess. I am looking something ergonomic.
When I am doing light typing, anything works, but when I am doing lots of heavy typing, I use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard. I like that it puts most of the modifier keys under the thumbs by default (it is fully remappable)
It took a couple of weeks to get up to full touch typing speed on it, given the slightly different layout of keys and shape of keyboard, but after that it was back to full speed.
The only downsides to using only that keyboard is that it is a bit awkward to carry around with a laptop, e.g. if you want to go do some work at a coffee shop. I tend not to do such heavy typing in those places, though, and don't have much trouble with hand/wrist fatigue with light typing.
I have small hands so I normally need a condensed laptop keyboard; I either use the inbuilt one (macbook pro + touchpad), or Microsoft’s sculpt (no numpad, and R.A.T. mouse because the one that comes in the set is a horror)
The older thinkpad keyboard would be very nice but unfortunately those are getting quite hard to find. For trackpoint lovers one option is Tex Yoda II with mechanical switches and trackpoint, but I find 60% layout too limited.
I've found the Ergodox EZ mouse controls to be good. You can use WASD to move the mouse, with full acceleration.
I found learning Ergodox layout too hard especially as I would have still had to use normal layout with laptop, even if I had bought second on for use at home
+1 for the Ergodox EZ, takes a couple of weeks to get used to it but once you do it’s great
I used it on and off at home for a month or so to get comfortable before bringing it to work
I haven't had any issue switching between laptop and Ergodox. It's an entirely different frame of mind for me.
I've used the Apple Wireless Keyboard (v1. v2 is worse) for 5 years, basically since I got started in the industry. The external trackpad also rocks Before when I was a student I had severe wrist pain, tried out multiple ergonomic keyboards (Microsoft, thinkpad, Kinesis) to no avail. Been pain-free for these 5 years. I've found the technique (which spans things beyond typing itself) is far more important than the hardware or layout (switched back colemak -> qwerty). Also I'd go as far as saying than ergo kbs are short-term solutions don't do much towards solving the root problem. OTOH I could admit that other people's bodies work differently. But the RSI people I've met so far didn't seem to be improving despite their hardcode ergo setups, but merely 'surviving' Anyone interested can ping me privately cc/ @kwladyka
I had a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_stereo_vision , wasn't familiar with the concept
Is it the kind of problem that can be solved by throwing enough ML at it? Or would it need some human/animal -like intelligence
@vemv in my case i feel pain in higher back. I have theory it is because magic keyboard. Last week I was playing a game. It is terrible experience for me with this keyboard. I realised I need to use mechanic keyboard and my arms are too narrow with this keyboard. So I am looking right keyboard for me. Sadly I can’t test them before buy in Poland. Just it is not common thing in our country. > I’ve found the technique What technique?
Just I didn’t have this kind of pain in the past when I wasn’t use MAC. So naturally I think keyboard is not for me. But I am also getting older 😉
@kwladyka kb-related issues should be reflected on wrists, fingers, forearms for neck/shoulders/back I'd have a look at your sitting technique and gear. I use a Ikea Volmar chair, no armrest, with neck rest (used sporadically). also height-adjustable monitor, I adjust it ~20 times a day because your body state varies during the workday and I don't tolerate suboptimal postures for a single minute In any case, for gaming I'd recommend using a sofa/puff + joystick. Adequate typing + office-style sitting is too hard to get right. Also using a single device (keyboard) for too many hours will exhaust you no matter what you do. i.e. don't work and play in the same setting > What technique? many
Yoga took all the wrist, hand, back, neck pain away from me. It took 1 year or so before I realized the difference, but now I can sit up straight without any back support, and use the 13” MacBook Pro keyboard without any wrist pain.
I’m happy to go deeper on specific yoga genres to prefer or avoid - just start a thread.
Interesting experience! I've done some yoga but never realised it had this kind of potential. - Why not support the back? - genres to prefer/avoid tldr?
it's intuitively true that the same exact keyboard cannot serve a small person and a big one with the same ergonomics. OTOH, on average people use awful angles (at multiple levels: fingers, wrists, forearms, x-axis, y-axis) so it can be hard to tell what is doing what. I'd say a big guy on a 13"MBP with perfect technique would do better than if using average technique over a Kinesis.
Ah, I’m not that wide :) funnily enough, the only thing that damages my hands recently is the claw fingers from phone browsing.
I believe, without being able to verify, is that being able to sit up straight without back or arm support means the hands eventually find a way that is not tiring. I never could get comfortable on my expensive chair.
The only thing I need is a mouse and a screen at eye-level to avoid hunching over a laptop.
Also lifting weights helps lots. Counterintuitively, it improves bone strength + overall flexibility and it gives you a better grip, which translates into comfortable typing. Often when I work too many days in a row and my arms start to get constantly tired, I hit the gym and my whole system gets reset
+1 for some sport. I'd love to sit all day and code / read or play some games. But if I manage to do that I will slowly decline into a world of uncomfortableness and eventually pain. Our body wants to move, daily, hourly, the heart rate needs to go up and the more muscles you can build up the better you will feel. For me its a struggle to do so, but the gains are worth it.
My wife & I have struggled with that for years and last year we both bought Motiv rings and it's nice and unobtrusive but the iPhone app for it has proved to be a great motivator and we've both increased our exercise and become a lot more aware of our activity levels.
@vemv I have Herman Miller Embody Chair - it should be fine. Still i believe my current keyboard is bad. It wouldn’t save but I hope give more comfort. As I mentioned the newest mac magic keyboard is very bad for me when push buttons longer time than common writing. So using shortcuts in editor with ctrl/alt/cmd and playing games. I didn’t have this issue in the past with different keyboards.
does it hurt if you hold a single modifier key with a single hand? Try holding
command for 5 seconds, just use one hand, one finger (preferrably the thumb)
(Normally it shouldn't, particularly when Apple kbs are require so little effort to be pressed)
yeah, i have not comfortable feeling about pressing button too long, even with one finger
As I mentioned I discovered how bad it is when I installed game las week. Pressing arrow or shift to run…. It was very bad experience for me.
Yes, not too much press on button. But keeping this press is something different. You have to press it to the end of button. For me it is feeling like I push mi fingers into hard desk.