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#off-topic
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2017-07-11
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qqq03:07:59

after just a few years with osx, it's amazing how much hackery is required to get even the most basic things to work in linux

zgrogan05:07:35

after a few years with linux, you won't miss your shackles anymore

qqq05:07:18

thing is, my cusomers pay me to deliver results, not tweak linux and read forums

a1308:07:09

Lol, I moved back to linux 5-6 years ago, when I realised I can't live with OSX anymore: no decent tiling WM, no fresh binary precompiled packages (brew was in its infancy, fink ones were outdated), it was pretty hard to use Emacs daemon/client out of the box. Coreutils sucked (I had to install GNU's and make aliases for everything). No, just thank you. Besides that most of my configuration files were tweaked many years ago — I don't have to do it from scratch anymore.

shidima_09:07:57

After working on osx for 4 years I'm very happy my current employer is using Linux. Apple always wants to implement every thing there own way. Why use a standard if you can invent your own

shidima_09:07:21

And it took me 10 mins to setup Ubuntu + Emacs (Spacemacs) and get to work

shidima_09:07:17

I have to say tho, that I dont like redhat based distro's 🙂

roberto13:07:34

I moved in the other direction linux->osx 5 years ago after having exclusively used linux for about 10 years. I don’t see myself going back to Linux anytime soon.

a1313:07:16

The thing is I don't use heavy complex packages like KDE/Gnome/Libreoffice/etc. On the other hand Emacs/Stumpwm/Urxvt are pretty stable for years. So everything I need just works and there's no reason to switch.

mnzt13:07:45

I prefer having to build a lego house from the ground up (minimal distro, choice of wm, de, editor, scripting stuff yourself) than have to destruct a scale model to fix a bit of furniture 😛

roberto14:07:31

depends on people’s needs.I used to spend weeks trying to get wifi, sound and video to work. Not to mention that if I needed to give a presentation, my laptop wouldn’t work with whatever overhead projector was being used. I’m past spending time trying to get those things to work.

roberto14:07:48

Plus, upgrading was also a nightmare everytime. Haven’t had an issued upgrading OSX.

roberto14:07:04

But I also don’t use tiling WMs, I am fine having a desktop manager. I just want to get off the ground working as soon as possible (hopefully within the same day) and be confident wifi, sound and video work without glitches.

roberto14:07:18

Oh, and if sound is working, I would still have to figure out how to enable mp3

roberto14:07:12

Things might have changed since 2007, but I’m pretty comfortable where I’m at. Don’t have any need to go and find out for myself 🙂

a1314:07:16

Yes, it definitely depends on your needs, and also on your hardware 🙂. I can't remember any serious hardware problems with mine. Usually everything works OOtB and I check compatibility before buying.

a1314:07:43

>Oh, and if sound is working, I would still have to figure out how to enable mp3 just install player that can play it, there are plenty

roberto14:07:32

yep, that wasn’t the case in 2007. You had to install mp3 packages explicitly.

roberto14:07:35

Especially in Fedora.

roberto14:07:59

Something to do with we “mp3 is not free enough for us”

roberto14:07:04

that mantra also started bothering me

a1314:07:20

AFAIR back in 2007 I used xmms and it worked just fine

dpsutton14:07:35

mp3 was proprietary. i think the patent recently expired

shidima_14:07:09

The biggest problem I have with Apple / OSx is that its is majorly over priced

shidima_14:07:55

And certainly the last generation, they just added $350 on top without any thing to show for it

roberto14:07:03

when I factor in the time I used to spend configuring and tweaking a Linux desktop, I find the price for an MBP justifiable.

roberto14:07:27

that was billable time that I lost

mnzt14:07:31

For me I find the time invested in configuration has been paid off in productivity

roberto14:07:03

interesting, I find myself being more productive in OSX than Linux.

roberto14:07:34

maybe because in Linux was always in tweaking mentality that if the most insignificant thing was not to my liking, I would try to tweak that too

shidima_14:07:46

With the arrival of Ubuntu , I have had zero problems with drivers or configuration

roberto14:07:56

but it could have also had to do with my age. The older I get, the less I worry about how things look

mnzt14:07:21

Yeah I gave up on ricing and just focused on getting sh*t done

shidima_14:07:49

@robert yeah, my current laptop I bought second hand for $250, core i5 8gb ram and an ssd and normal drive. It doesnt look nice, but it works great

mnzt14:07:28

Definitely wish there were prettier non-mac laptops knocking around

shidima_14:07:54

Samsung and Asus make some good looking machines

roberto14:07:00

hehehe, yeah, I loved thinkpads, but damn, were they hideous and bulky

mnzt14:07:13

It's what's inside that counts! All ThinkPads are beautiful!

dpsutton14:07:55

and the trackpoint is amazing

mpenet14:07:48

There are rumors about a new thinkpad in the old style coming out soon

mpenet14:07:07

Something about an anniversary I think

dpsutton14:07:01

i am really looking forward to that one. i'm running a carbon 3rd gen and couldn't be happier. but if i can get a 3:2 size screen that would be amazing

mpenet15:07:10

Same, holding on to my old xps13 in the meantime

dpsutton15:07:38

those look so nice (especially the screen) except i've gotten used to the trackpoint. I don't think i could do a computer without one in the future. I'm a homerow keyboard user (emacs, cvim in browser, etc) but that trackpoint is just perfect

mpenet15:07:30

Theres a company doing mech keyboards with trackpoints, Tex

mpenet15:07:54

(I am an atreus user)

mpenet15:07:10

Tex kb are prolly high quality. I own a few of the cases they used to make

fellshard15:07:50

Thinkpads all have weird driver bugs, though 😕

dpsutton15:07:57

i've been drooling over a happy hacker keyboard for a while though...

dpsutton15:07:25

i haven't had any weird driver bugs on mine. i'm just running standard fedora on thinkpad and its been pretty smooth sailing for me

mpenet15:07:22

I used to use a hhkb2, but I went back to cherry switches

dpsutton15:07:00

just tough to get my hands on one to try it out. didn't like the topre?

mpenet15:07:09

I did, it s quite different, I used it for years. But it s difficult to mod, and my hands prefer the atreus layout

mnzt15:07:42

Nipple keyboard, looks really nice

mpenet15:07:45

I could sell the hhkb to you if interested

cjhowe16:07:04

if you like buckling spring, anyways, be prepared to annoy anyone within a 15m radius

schmee17:07:41

speaking of keyboards, has anyone tried https://ergodox-ez.com/?

schmee17:07:53

I’ve been drooling over those for a while but I’ve never pulled the trigger

mpenet17:07:01

I did, they are nice indeed

mpenet17:07:24

tried an infinity variant tho, but it's more or less the same

fellshard17:07:34

Using it to type this message 🙂

fellshard17:07:25

Enjoying it pretty well. It certainly takes a bit to get used to, and my only major complaint so far has been a tendency for the firmware to get 'stuck', but that's rare and fixed easily by unplugging / replugging

fellshard17:07:48

It's been really helping my posture, since my shoulders are relatively broad and a standard ergonomic is still too narrow

fellshard17:07:33

The tenting can take some fiddling to find an optimal configuration, but shouldn't be too difficult.

fellshard17:07:57

The layout and layering customization is pretty straightforward.

qqq18:07:22

apparently I lack the technical ability to get my gtx9 980 ti to drive 3 external monitors under linux

qqq18:07:34

it's macs from here on out for me for dev machine

pcj18:07:26

@fellshard how long did it take?

fellshard18:07:29

Hard to say. I learned a new layout a couple of years ago, QWERTY -> Colemak, so I think the learning curve there helped prepare me for this one. Only took a few weeks to smooth out the worst of the bumps, and that was mostly adjusting to the thumb keys.

fellshard18:07:04

And that was with inconsistent use, too; on-and-off.

roklenarcic18:07:40

my main fear with those keyboards is that I'll be forced to type on normal keyboards on other people's machines and my laptop

roklenarcic18:07:03

kinda hard to go with a layout that isn't available everywhere

fellshard18:07:06

I learned to switch between QWERTY and Colemak; my home machine is still QWERTY 🙂

roklenarcic18:07:28

you are a better man than me

fellshard18:07:43

Be prepared for initial frustration, be ready to flash the firmware in case specific habits are more easily adapted to than broken. For example, I had to swap the 'space' and 'enter' keys because I was regularly using my right thumb to hit space

fellshard18:07:01

All it took was using both regularly over the course of a few months, and it became second nature

roklenarcic18:07:03

Just the fact that most people use local keyboard layout and I use Standard US is source of infinite rage

roklenarcic18:07:03

how do people manage to type anything when {} are ctrl+alt+m,n

roklenarcic18:07:37

IntelljIDEA with smart braces is saving a lot of asses

fellshard18:07:42

That sounds like emacs gone totally wrong

fellshard18:07:02

And yeah, ParInfer is incredible for working with Lisps so far

roklenarcic18:07:15

The @ is ctr+alt+b

fellshard18:07:41

I swear we need a 'programmer's layout'

roklenarcic18:07:42

But ctr+alt is alt gr

roklenarcic18:07:44

so that's one key

pcj18:07:28

Well I am in need of a new keyboard and that looks super comfy

sundarj20:07:47

ive been using programmer dvorak for a while, plan to switch to colemak eventually tho

schmee21:07:09

@fellshard cool! what switches are you using?

fellshard21:07:29

Blues, my first time using 'em. Deliciously clicky