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#off-topic
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2017-07-08
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Jon04:07:19

"Cumulo Editor early prototype: collaborative editing, saving files", any random thoughts?

seancorfield05:07:39

There have been lots of collaborative editors over the years. Firepad, Etherpad, Collabedit, Floobits, ACE. I think some people use tmux and Emacs (not sure how that works since I've never tried it). Some of those are really solid, some not so. @jiyinyiyong

Jon05:07:34

forgot to mention in the video, the different part of stack-editor and cumulo-editor is they store the code in a tree, rather than a string of text, for example, this is from cumulo-editor:

Jon05:07:50

it's simpler to update a tree with update-in tree path, even many people are editing the same files, as long as the paths are not conflicted

qqq05:07:50

so the cool part is 'structural' editing rather than 'collaborative' ?

qqq05:07:19

I really wish someone would solve the structural editor problem once and for all

seancorfield05:07:36

You don't find paredit already solves that?

qqq05:07:28

I find Emacs to be "2d grid of chars" first and paredit is a 2nd class citizen.

qqq05:07:39

I actually want a editor that is sexp structural editor from the start.

qqq05:07:46

And I'd do all non-sexp editing in vim.

qqq05:07:01

This sounds like a joke, but I'm completely serious.

qqq05:07:32

I want a sexp structural editor for cljs/clj that is ALSO SCRIPTABLE in CLJS/CLJ.

qqq05:07:37

I'd even pay for that.

seancorfield05:07:52

I don't use emacs. Paredit is available elsewhere 🙂

seancorfield05:07:02

Atom is scriptable with cljs.

seancorfield05:07:01

It's a problem that a lot of very smart people have tried to solve -- and failed.

seancorfield05:07:20

LightTable originally started with that vision but became another text editor.

qqq05:07:31

Yeah, that's why I want someone else to make it work. 🙂

seancorfield05:07:39

Have you watched Bret Victors' talks on this?

qqq05:07:56

I've seen a few Bret Victor talks, but none on structural editing.

seancorfield05:07:02

And Chris Granger's subsequent talks?

qqq05:07:24

I think you missed the "I want someone else to make it work" statement. 🙂

seancorfield05:07:43

I'm talking about other people who've tried. And spent years trying.

seancorfield05:07:53

Early talks about LightTable show the vision that would align with what you hope you -- and subsequent talks show how and why that changed; then Eve was the next vision and that hasn't really worked either.

seancorfield05:07:19

So, right now, paredit implementations in various editors about as good as you get.

bschrag09:07:19

Years ago, I fell in love with Zwei's (Lisp Machine Emacs') control-mouse-middle-bound function to copy an s-expression from the mouse cursor to point. A colleague helped me implement this in an early X windows-supporting Gnu Emacs, and I've been carrying it around ever since. (Still works!) On my two button mouse, I have this bound to control-shift-left/tap. Happy to share, if anyone is interested. Saves a lot of keystrokes. :-)

danielstockton15:07:42

What are some other good slack groups people hang out in?

moogey02:07:47

danielstockton: I like codingblocks. I think most people in there are C#