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#off-topic
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2017-05-26
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tasdikrahman10:05:25

So yesterday, a private server of mine was compromised. Turns out the perpetrator did actually gain root access to the server and had started DDOS’ing other IP’s from it. Ultimately had to rebuild the image as I don’t know what else did he do to it. Went down the rabbit hole and did some analysis before that. Wrote it down in a blog post. Would love for suggestions of what should have/shouldn’t been done. Thanks 🙂 https://medium.com/@tasdikrahman/learnings-from-analyzing-my-compromised-server-linode-cd3be62dc286

mrdlink11:05:41

for my research project of my university, I have created some exercises I want to use in a learning workshop. The subject is clojure's software transactional memory. The exercises target people who are familar with programming in generel, concurrent programming and the basics of clojure. I only want to cover clojure's high level interfaces of the STM. I also want to cover the persistent data structures, atoms, watches and validators. Now I'm searching for experts with those subjects to help me evaluate my exercises. I also created a survey for those who want to help me. You can download the survey and the exercises here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/46qzdstltnk2cbn/Evaluation.rar?dl=0 If you want to evaluate the exercises, please keep in mind to read the thoroughly. Then fill out the survey and send it to my email: <mailto:[email protected]|[email protected]> For those who want to help thank you.

qqq13:05:29

what I would give for a language with the flexibility of clojure and optional static typing

roberto14:05:51

I think that is called Racket 🙂

baptiste-from-paris14:05:00

Which is indeed a great language

qqq14:05:58

alternatively, is it easy to get racket to output cljs/clj ?

baptiste-from-paris14:05:32

What do you mean ? Output ?

qqq14:05:28

yeah, transpile

qqq14:05:32

I like my clj / cljs setup

qqq14:05:40

if I can get typed rackedt to output clj/cljs, I think I may be able to use that instead

baptiste-from-paris14:05:50

@qqq I don't know about that and I don't think it exists

baptiste-from-paris14:05:08

But you'll learn a lot (at least I did) reading beautiful racket

baptiste-from-paris14:05:51

It's a lisp, you shouldn't be lost

qqq14:05:07

I'd realy like to read howto writre a compiler pass 🙂

baptiste-from-paris14:05:12

But I am not sure about clj <-> racket

qqq14:05:20

racket comes with it's own ide (instead of emacs) right?

qqq14:05:23

is that ide written in racket ?

baptiste-from-paris14:05:31

I don't know for the ide language

qqq14:05:10

https://bitbucket.org/ktg/l/src/57a5293aa0f040c81afd799364f3aaacaf8676fa/l++.rkt?at=master&amp;fileviewer=file-view-default if this is all it takes to go from raket to c++, going from rackedt to clj should be trivial

omkar15:05:57

What's up

chalcidfly16:05:36

Anyone know where to look for clojure internships?

chalcidfly16:05:52

Like a job board or something. “clojure intern” doesn’t do anything on glassdoor or indeed

unbalanced17:05:27

who is Zack Maril and why is he so unhappy? 😮

mobileink18:05:19

what do you do about a colleague who has lived in your country for 15+ years, but whose accent is still so thick you cannot understand a word?

mobileink18:05:54

it boggles the mind.

mobileink18:05:41

grammar is fine. just the pronunciation.

noisesmith18:05:48

people learn speech sounds as infants mostly, if you don’t learn a second language when very young, it takes a lot of work to actually hear a foreign language properly

noisesmith18:05:20

if they learned your language as an adult, they may never be accent free

mobileink18:05:44

"it's hard" is no excuse in my book. i don't need "accent-free", i need "understandable".

fellshard18:05:36

It's not that it's hard

fellshard18:05:44

It's physiologically impossible

fellshard19:05:22

You learn a fixed set of phonemes in the first few years of your life, and it's extremely hard to detect, differentiate, and even use new ones

dpsutton19:05:55

> impossible > extremely hard to detect, differentiate, and even use new ones

fellshard19:05:58

You have to have rigorous learning in teenage and young adult years to overcome it, and even then the capability to do so lowers with age

mobileink19:05:02

i spent years studying a foreign language, and i worked my friggin butt of to learn how to pronounce it. i know lots of people who have managed to kearn to speak english as a second language with accented but understandable pronunciation. i'm talking about pathologically bad pronunciation.

dpsutton19:05:03

just point out the incongruity

dpsutton19:05:10

that being said, i never begrudge anyone their accent

fellshard19:05:09

Yeah, impossible was an overexaggeration 😐

fellshard19:05:04

Think the classic Japanese l/r confusion. The issue there is that they literally can't distinguish between the two sounds.

fellshard19:05:32

Only with a great deal of time and awareness that they are saying it wrong will they be able to start distinguishing and correcting it.

mobileink19:05:45

@fellshard hard: not impossible. it just takes work. i know for example a woman who came here from korea for grad school and she speaks without a noticible accent. but accent is not the problem. the problem is impenetrable pronunciation.

mobileink19:05:29

it's been debunked.

mobileink19:05:08

it is entirely possible for an adult to learn to speak a second language like a native speaker. it just takes time and effort.

mobileink19:05:51

original question is what to do about it. if i cannot understand you, that's a problem. this person may not even be aware of how hard it is to understand her speech.

mobileink19:05:00

if i whine about it, i'm the jerk. which doesn't seem fair. i have to spend an inordinate amount of energy in meetings just to try to decipher her speech. that doesn't seem right.

mobileink19:05:50

but i cannot think of a good way to improve things without coming off as the jerk.

blueberry19:05:40

@mobileink what about other coworkers? do they understand her?

mobileink19:05:25

the ones who have worked with her for years do. i started working with her some months ago, and have gotten to the point where i can understand about 50%. i have in fact discussed this with others, and we're all pretty much agreed, her speech is indecipherable without lots of practice.

mobileink19:05:59

she's a good person, and her tech skills are fine.

mobileink19:05:52

but - i'm not proud of this - i'm beginning to resent the special treatment. if i were to start speaking in tongues in meetings i would be fired.

mobileink19:05:01

i don't want to damage her in any way. i just want her to shoulder the burden of effective communication, rather than pushing it off to me.

mobileink19:05:40

it's absolutely exhausting to try to converse with somebody whose speech, while being grammatical English, is nonetheless impenetrable.

dpsutton19:05:44

maybe. i'm guessing the internet may not be a good place to vent on that subject though

dpsutton19:05:55

tone doesn't really translate

mobileink19:05:54

don't mean to vent. looking for suggestions. how to deal with a difficult social situation.

mobileink19:05:53

somebody else must have faced this.

mobileink19:05:19

esp. in the tech world.

blueberry19:05:04

depending of how much effort you want to put in, there is also an option of learning the basics of this person's native language. this will train your ear to decipher sounds that are natural to her. of course, that mean lots of effort, but could also be an interesting learning experience for you?

mobileink19:05:39

@blueberry hell yeah! i'm a language geek. but there are only so many hours in a day. and mainly: this is a professional work situation. the language is English. why should i need to learn another language? if i were working in a Spanish speaking office, i would learn to communicate Spanish and expect to be fired if i could not.

blueberry19:05:07

i am completely on your side. however, when i traveled to india and the rest of asia, i learned that the english language is not what i thought it was :)

blueberry19:05:15

meaning that by being the world's language it was also transformed by those billions speaking it to something completely different...

wamaral19:05:19

remote work + slack

fellshard19:05:48

Definitely on your side on this, have had to wrangle through many a conference call with an extremely thick accent. The most you can do is try to address it with the person or their leadership directly; it might be feedback better given by someone closer, in those cases

mobileink20:05:59

@fellshard that's a great idea. maybe i should find a non-threatening way to bring it up with the coleagues who work closely with her and understand her. they might have some ideas.

mobileink20:05:17

reminds me of my college days when all the science students would complain bitterly about the indecipherable accents of the grad student teaching assistants.

mobileink20:05:34

my crazy idea is that HR would start offering some kind of classes. hire some speech therapists, accent coaches from the theater, etc. and call it professional development. which it would be, fact.

fellshard20:05:19

Are they in-person or over a phone?

john20:05:11

If you have an internal chat tool, you could try to push most important correspondence to text.

mobileink20:05:21

@john: hahaha! some of us have been trying to get people to move from email to slack. fierce resistance, even from tech people!

mobileink20:05:13

@fellshard both. just had a teleconf today. no idea what was said.

fellshard20:05:58

Accent issues are usually intensified over phone lines... do you have any other service choices that can give higher voice quality? Or different hardware on his end, e.g. a crisper mic? Or save meetings with him if you can until you can meet in person?

mobileink20:05:02

alas, it's just as bad in person.

mobileink20:05:23

@john: the non-tech peeps love slack, the techies think they're too busy... so they use email. i am not making this up.

mobileink20:05:56

what's the opposite edge of "cutting edge"?

john20:05:54

Some places require everyone has their chat app up and open as a matter of policy.

mobileink20:05:26

we have some kind of ms thing.

john20:05:45

Yeah, connect, or whatever.

mobileink20:05:57

only within the corp net. worthless otherwise.

john20:05:34

I don't think it's unreasonable to say, "Hey, I'm really sorry. I'm really bad at understanding certain dialects. Do you mind if I converse with you over chat?"

john20:05:17

Or maybe it is... Doesn't seem unreasonable to me though.

mobileink20:05:27

that wouldn't work very well in a mtg.

mobileink20:05:15

it's more like "i have no idea what you just said" and then look around and hope somebody else in the mtg can translate. i am not making this up, it has happened.

john20:05:51

lol been there

mobileink20:05:13

@fellshard if i could reduce it to an accent issue all would be good. it is not an accent issue, alas. i.e. there is a fine line between "accent" and "wtf".

fellshard20:05:35

Sometimes it's a matter of breaking the ice, prioritizing understanding over social ease, at that point. "I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I caught what you said, could you repeat that?"

fellshard20:05:53

'cuz yeah, too many times of sitting on a call, looking up at everyone else in the room and seeing glazed-over eyes

mobileink20:05:39

what kills me is she has been in us for many years. and i had another colleague, from korea, who spent decades in the us, but whose english remained largely indecipherably.

fellshard20:05:31

I do wonder how much of it is just our penchant to not want to address when the accent/pronunciation is that bad, so the person doesn't see a need to adjust. Or it's only the rare occasion, so their response becomes, "No-one else has thought that!"

sova-soars-the-sora20:05:08

why not resort to written language via dry erase?

mobileink20:05:23

i'm pretty sure she is not just dim. she has heard "wtf did you just say?" many many times.

sova-soars-the-sora20:05:29

(just kinda casually walking through here, don't mind me..)

mobileink20:05:26

@fellshard yeah. i do not think we are doing any favors by pretending "your english is fine". but it's a sensitive topic. i know i was very grateful whenever a native speaker corrected my arabic.

fellshard20:05:37

(Kinda tangential, but I suspect that's part of the fear of lashback nowadays. Correcting someone could be targeted as 'cultural insensitivity' by some, so it just becomes easier but more destructive to not confront at all.)

mobileink20:05:54

if i had a one on one with her i might try. but to correct her in front of a bunch of colleagues? not so much.

fellshard20:05:58

The culture of non-offense is making it increasingly difficult for the already-hard problem of enterprise feedback loops to be maintained.

fellshard20:05:11

Yeah, for sure, try it one-on-one, especially since they are in person.

john20:05:11

Revenue isn't culturally sensitive

john21:05:20

If the job requires fluent arabic and you don't speak fluent arabic, sorry 😕

sova-soars-the-sora21:05:04

sounds like all the work is getting done, tho

mobileink21:05:29

@sova maybe. what about all the work that isn't getting done?

mobileink21:05:59

to be honest i'm not sure my bitch is even legit. it's very annoying to have to deal with this, but otoh i don't really know if it make a difference. if she were a boss, it might be different.

blueberry21:05:21

@mobileink whatever you do, do not forget that no good deed goes unpunished.

mobileink21:05:51

very good advice!!!

wiseman21:05:29

“culture of non-offense”, “increasingly difficult”. FYI i completely 100% do not buy that.

mobileink21:05:21

i've made my concerns made to my boss, who understands. maybe that's as far as i should go.

john21:05:48

9 times out of 10 though, folks with indecipherable accents are usually there because they're bad ass at something else.

john21:05:04

so it balances out

wiseman21:05:21

that idea that there is such a culture that is increasing, or that enterprise feedback loops are increasinly hard to maintain.

john21:05:56

@wiseman You haven't taken the training yet?

wiseman21:05:01

(let alone a link between these non-existent phenomena)

john21:05:04

Somebody send him the training invite

wiseman21:05:03

one thing that is holding steady over time--people thinking the old days were somehow better

mobileink21:05:04

@wiseman when's the last time you cracked an offensive joke (i.e. any joke whatsoever) at work?

wiseman21:05:33

all jokes are offensive? i think we may have different ideas of humor.

john21:05:46

Unless you admit your cultural bias, you're culturally bias. Remember to print, sign and scan the CBUA and email it back when you're done!

mobileink21:05:09

is it doesn't offend somebody, it's not funny. 😉

mobileink21:05:16

@john send the $50 testing fee to me, please.

john21:05:30

@wiseman I am joking. But you have to either work in Gov't or huge "risk management" bureaucracies to see these things get out of control.

john21:05:54

Change requests take on the order of months, not days.

mobileink21:05:59

i dare anybody to tell a "priest, rabbi, and lesbian walk into a bar.. " joke at work.

dpsutton21:05:00

i read boudreaux and thibodeaux jokes at our standup every morning

mobileink21:05:52

@wiseman: ok, tell us the last joke you told at work. we'll reciprocate. you first.

dpsutton21:05:35

south louisiana. these are our dumb redneck jokes

seancorfield21:05:53

Whilst this channel is #off-topic I would like to remind folks that it is still covered by the Clojurians Code of Conduct so be sensitive to all the differences people have and the offense that (some) jokes may cause people… </admin>