Fork me on GitHub
#off-topic
<
2017-04-10
>
firstlast02:04:14

Youtube comments of all the places for an insightful discussion about FP vs OOPS : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zlp9rKHGD4&amp;lc=z13ayfapqqv4s1aq404cizhatoriy3ayvjo

qqq03:04:22

why does the video starts off takinga bout oxygen, nitrogen, and biology?

fellshard06:04:15

You've clearly never seen Robert Martin talk 😛

fellshard06:04:07

He frequently starts his talks / lessons with random physics and astronomy lessons, probably because he likes dragging his other interests and hobbies to the table. It's odd, if harmless.

qqq06:04:24

Not a big fan of that. Not a big fan of people reading off merim-webster definitions either; show me the %*&#( code already :-)

fellshard06:04:32

In that talk, he's definitely pitching to people who've never set foot in functional-land. He's been a proponent for decades of OOP, and has only recently begun championing Clojure.

fellshard06:04:29

You'll also find that people's opinion of Bob Martin are... usually very polarizing. He's also a leader in the 'software craftsmanship' movement, which is extremely polarizing in-and-of itself.

fellshard06:04:11

Giving Pharo a poke to see what the fuss with Smalltalk was about. Definitely a fascinating peek into pure OO mentality. I'm definitely seeing where Ruby drew a lot of its conceptual inspiration from... and how much it seemed to lose in the telling.

fellshard06:04:37

Seeing blocks in their original context, for example, makes a lot more sense.

qqq07:04:17

@fellshard : i heard that smalltalk was very "pure" in the sense of: sure, there was state, but things could only talk to each other via message passing; thus, each "node" is basically like a giant "reduce" function (that also emits things) over its state + incoming messages

qqq07:04:30

I guess this is the the same "purity" in the erlang sense

qqq07:04:32

wanted to take part in http://files.pharo.org/mooc/ ... but it's not English

fellshard07:04:38

That's pretty much what I'm seeing, yep. It's super fascinating.

fellshard07:04:49

Seems a bit more tolerable

fellshard07:04:59

It's got PDF / HTML renderings.

qqq07:04:58

One thing I've become interested in (after switching to emacs 6 months ago) -- is fully integrating runtime, ide, and language. In this regard, Pharo/Smalltalk really wins out and fasicnates me. This whole "liveness" concept. I feel like I can learn more from it.

wiseman17:04:17

Macintosh Common Lisp was a pretty good, relatively recent version of that, too.

qqq20:04:33

@U07HVL0F7: I can't find it googling "mac common lisp" -- is this Clozure or LispWorks or .... ?

wiseman20:04:20

It’s a separate implementation, “Macintosh Common Lisp”, abbreviated MCL. was a commercial product, i think it got open sourced at the end. Clozure comes from it.

wiseman20:04:10

clozure used to be called OpenMCL

wiseman20:04:27

the IDE was written in lisp, and there was a culture of extension and customization. It had very nice integration with the MacOS, too. to create an app, you’d start with the IDE image and just extend & modify.

wiseman20:04:12

well, clozure is more like a typical text lisp REPL that i don’t think is trying to recreate all the features of MCL. i haven’t kept up-to-date, so i don’t know for sure; i think though that the feeling of almost total integration and extensibility that MCL had was limited to MCL itself, and is gone now.

fellshard07:04:08

Even Clojure's REPL tends to resemble this, but the Smalltalk environments 'bring it to life', so to speak. I've yet to see exactly how successful it is at that task, but it's one that would be a good mental stretch to dive into.

fellshard07:04:34

It was either this or APL/J next on my list 😛

qqq07:04:50

I did J recently. Quite a different experience.

qqq07:04:07

Writing a mini-J interpreter on OpenCL is somewhere on my Todo List.

fellshard07:04:18

That sounds like a lot of fun, actually

fellshard07:04:41

I don't know. I doubt it? It's still pretty mutable as far as I know

qqq07:04:45

I was writing deep learning code in Tensorflow, and couldn't help think: these two screenfulls would be 3 lines in J, if only there was a J that runs on the GPU.

fellshard07:04:44

It really is eerie how much of Ruby suddenly makes sense in retrospect. I touched Ruby last... maybe 10 years ago, now? And now I can see Smalltalk's fingerprints all over it.

qqq07:04:41

If you accept the thesis that Erlang is a better smalltalk than Ruby, it's kinda funny how Rubists are now flocking to Elixir. 🙂

fellshard07:04:09

Heh! Another one to examine, for sure.

fellshard07:04:31

Alright, I should probably sleep, since I've gotta wake up for a flight in... 4 hours. Ugh.

qqq07:04:35

Wait, one more question.

qqq07:04:44

I just installed Pharo. CLicked on the hlep menu, It says hlep not avaialble.

qqq07:04:49

Do you know a list of good eercises to learn Pharo?

qqq07:04:05

How wwould you recommend learning Pharo given the Mooc is not in english.

fellshard07:04:15

The MOOC has sections for all languages, hold a tick

qqq07:04:47

Great, thanks! Enjy you sleep / flight.

fellshard07:04:06

The 'Pharo by Example' might have some in it as well, not sure yet since I only just got started and went through the ProfStef thing

fellshard07:04:19

Ciao! 🙋

qqq07:04:33

Take care!

fellshard07:04:46

(examining that directory: apparently 'all languages' is english and french. Welp)

sudo_bangbang07:04:15

Hey everybody, I'm Roshan Jossey. I'm a programmer and open source enthusiast. I run a project to help beginners get started with open source contributions https://github.com/Roshanjossey/first-contributions