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I'll confess that I don't fully understand what the newest clojurescript/closure updates mean in the big picture


Are we getting to the point where we can go (:require [node.react :refer [something]])


Is the task of writing externs ultimately automatible with more work?


Are we still going to have to access js via the window object?


me > Boss, I can't come in today
boss > Why? 
me > Gitlab is down
boss > We don't use gitlab
me > I know
boss > so why aren't you coming in
me > I have to spend the day memeing at gitlab about how they failed to make any of their 5 backup solutions work
boss > Take all the time you need.


lol, painful


How to figure out you have become to old: Read some joke about memeing, wondering what that exactly is and what it has to do with gitlab failing to do backups and why some guy cannot come for work in the joke because of that memeing thingy. Check - Achievement reached 😄


so we either just use an isolated gitlab or move to bitbucket


for private repos ...


do you guys have good managers? What does it mean for a manager to be good?


I just got a new manager who does a caricature version of scrum, and can’t provide any arguments as to why we should do things the way he wants. Except for arguments from authority — “I’m the manager, do as I say"


I have heard about this kind of manager species, but this is the first one I ever see live 🙂


jstaffans run, run as fast as you can


yes indeed, I


I’d be voting with my feet right away but I’m going on extended parental leave soon, so I won’t bother


I've never really had a manager before but I've had one here, really pushing things forward, providing good arguments about why things were going the way they went, what was going on, with a great capacity to listen and being empathic, I think those a key caracteristics on the other hand the new one seems to have less ability to listen, and shows the typical "new manager doesn't want to play with his predecessor's toys" behavior I've heard about but never witnessed before, which is annoying, but I guess he wants to move things forward too, so he need to be given a chance, I'm leaving but it's not because of that. Maybe give him a chance, he may be facing new challenges and needs some time to get back on his feet and if you can't discuss because "he's the manager", you won't be able to do much 🙂


I think it’s telling how a manager responds to “why” types of questions, if it causes him or her to try to discover the need I have that I’m trying resolve or if the question is just brushed off with some appeal to authority or irrelevant statement


imho, good managers do coaching, they're like those good teachers, they don't see you as their student, but their children.


I think Bob Taylor of Xerox PARC is a great example of what managers should be like


While I also voted for the "run fast" approach, if you want to go anyway, you might want to take the chance to practice a new approach. For instance you could try to get into a chat with him. Where chat means you listen and ask honest questions. Questions that make him feel safe, questions directed into his interest. Try to view everything from his side of things. Be as empathic as you can. Try to understand his goals, his personal goals (not a general managers goals that you think every manager has). Try to understand him as a person. There are many different types a person can be and there are only a view types that are really hard to handle (like the narcistic ones for instance). Try to get into his brain as best as you can. Not to manipulate him, but to understand him.


If you understand someones needs, you will mostly find a way to align his needs with your needs. And if not, at least it makes things clearer.


sveri basically means, do the Dale Carnegie approach 🙂


Well, it boils down to it. If you know who Dale Carnegie is 😉


Very good advice sveri! I think the Dale Carnegie approach (I’ve read the book as well) is easy to understand but takes a lot of practice to do right, this is a good opportunity for that


🙂 thank you jstaffans. Actually I read many more books abount negotiations and similar stuff, all younger than the Carnegie books. But most of them boil down to what Carnegie wrote back then, which I find very interesting.


Also I try to practice this all the time whenever I have the patience. And I remember when I started with it my girlfriend was half angry, half laughing because it was so obvious. But over the years it has become better and while she mostly recognizes it, it works pretty good. Also with my little one, most of the times he becomes very easy to handle if you treat him with respect and listen to him, ask honest questions and care about his problems no matter how urgent your own ones are. That said, patience is the key, its not always easy to discuss things like sleeping time after a long and stressfull day 😄


sveri what book are you referring to?


@schmee;btkr=1 I cannot remember the other books I have read by name, but in general, the "non violent communication" topic goes into the same direction.


ahh, I’ve seen that book crop up in a couple of places


I’m gonna give in and order it!


I can only recommend that. I read it like over 10 years ago and still find my self benefit from it.


Also I would bet you can find a pdf version of that for giving it a trial 😉


I’d recommend that one as well and another one called “The skilled facilitator” by Roger Schwarz


I found that one much more approachable than the NVC book


@jstaffans Is that only useful in a business context or more general?


after reading Dale's book, go read Sun Tzu's, it will be hilarious 😄


@sveri, the examples are all very business-oriented but the content is more general than that


It’s written from a facilitator’s point of view, but the ideas around what constitutes a productive meeting/conversation are universally applicable, I'd say


Cool, thank you very much 🙂


@sveri do you have a good reference where it's specified those types of people where Dale's book is ineffective? or at least something that discusses the exceptions


@ejelome Nope, I dont have a written one. Its more based on my experience with people close to me or that I interact with regularly. Like my wifes father for instance is narcistic (its diagnosed and not some made up stuff) and listening to him will not achieve anything, neither for him nor for you. Dealing with narcisistc people basically means, take them as they are or dont interact with them.


thanks @sveri, being an introvert, it's kinda makes the practice more challenging, in a sense that it's more difficult since the mind prompts more warnings before you even begin talking


I highly recommend it


@pesterhazy There are several books about NVC, but yes, that is one of these I read and yes, I would also recommend it 🙂


and it's directly relevant to his (good) advice about communicating with empathy with people, including those who are hostile towards you


this video shows the author to have a sense of humor:


@ejelome It must be pretty hard to have this internal barrier that keeps you from doint what you want to do


it's not really that bad, although probably it's also my fault for not exploring outside its zone, to each his own I guess XD ... now watching NVC 😄


I also find the concept of believe systems very interesting, which might apply in your case ejelome. If you believe its hard for you to approach people it will be hard. If you believe its easy, it will be easy.


Most beliefs are manifested in your childhood and often you are not even aware of a certain believe, or know why you believe.


hmmm, interesting, I think that's also a factor, childhood is a great factor in adulthood, esp. the culture where you grew, so belief system ...


Exactly. Children believe in god because they are taught so. The same goes for Allah, Buddha, whatever religion there is. And the same is true for atheism, agnosticism or whatever the parents think is true or correct. Its the same for the whole life you live as a children and the teaching happens when you, as a child, have no influence in it at all. So its up to you as a later adult, to reflect about your beliefs.


now it gets more challenging, or in other terms, difficult 😄


I like this actually, to keep on questioning one's self


From my experience, it makes my life more interesting. Because it opens possibilities for myself. I can change myself if I want to. Although I also understand people that say they are happy the way they are and just stick with what they learned. To each his own 🙂


thanks @sveri, glad to discuss a very interesting topic, thumbsup_all relationships are really one of life's greatest challenges 😄


Yea 🙂 I totally agree. Relationships are what make your life worth living or not. If you decide so 😄 True freedom is hard to achieve. May I ask how old you are ejelome?


could not agree more, I'm still 28, not sure if still is the right prefix, hahaha


Thats the age where I learnt most about these topics, I started around 25, I had a severe depression back then and basically had to relearn to live. Very interesting times, if you are into this kind of stuff 🙂


I don't think I can even survive a depression, so I try every way to avoid getting one, although tbh, I'm a bit the defensive pessimist type, though I'm pretty sure you're tougher now, that's one of the things I admire from those who suffer from problems like that (and survived), then after that, they suddenly become like SSJs 😄


oh wait, this is much better 🙂 SSJ = Super Saiyajin (not sure if you like/watched DBz XD)


so yeah, after that life challenge, you guys basically become more powerful (than your former self at least :D)


... I'm kind of bad at giving examples like this


Ah, never heard of that one. For me its not like that. I am different now, very different, from my former self. In good and bad ways. Like in everything, there are always tradoffs 😄


Also, after 3 years getting a worse and worse depression without knowing I had one I was relieved to hear what actually happened to me. It gave me something to work on 🙂 But yea, not everybody is lucky, 17%suicidal rate is pretty bad. Not talking about about the side effects your medication might have.


ooopps, sorry @sveri, currently working; still congratulations on that new life, hope all the best to come your way 🙂


@ejelome Thank you, the same to you, no matter what. Everyone deserves a good life 🙂


I have a problem I’m solving and it’s not in clojure but I just want to figure out the functional way to look at it. I have a list of hashes that I’m transforming. I’m running a map on it and extracting some of the values out. I then want to deduplicate the list for hashes that have a certain key/value. I tried doing it using a reducer(transducer style). The only issue is I’d have to scan the entire reduced list every time to see if the added hash has that key value to see whether or not to add it again. I realize that the functional approach is sometimes less performant but is there some way to keep state in the reducer that would short circuit this case?


Not sure I completely understand what you’re trying to do, but you may be able to pass both the final list (the thing you’re actually trying to reduce to) and a set of keys to check against as the aggregator.


@tokenshift yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense!


I could just pass [list flag]


I often use a wrapping map instead of a list/tuple, just so I can give each of the pieces a name; that can make the reduce fn clearer. But either way works.


I think it makes sense now that you’d have to carry the state forward throughout the transducing process or else it would be lost during some composition.


Albeit a bit heavier.


anyone here used both re-frame and om and can comment on the two?