http://jlongster.com/A-Prettier-Formatter

Half-tempted to make a spin on this post that just shows all the code 'formatted' to beautiful CLJS

anyone can recomnmend a screen recorder in Arch Linux? I keep on getting a black screen with a mouse cursor, also tried tweaking with gdm but to no avail 😞

@nickbauman That’s my point: it's winning because of the ecosystem (as far as JVM startup time goes, I’m sure that’s annoying to a lot of people, but I don’t think that’s as much of a factor in initial choice as it’s made out to be). But as a language, it leaves a lot to be desired as far as what I want out of language, e.g. it embraces imperative OO vs declarative FP. As far as notebooks are concerned, sure, that’s a pretty cool feature of Python (or R) when it comes to toying around, but ultimately I have to build production (often distributed) systems and Python is not what I want for something like that.

The startup time is a serious impediment to developer flow, especially when you choose to program in a dynamic language that has a repl. I love Clojure, but in many situations, I'm much more productive in Python because of its startup time.

The notebooks thing is important for teaching and learning but also in research. The folks behind iPython have even developed a distributed computing platform of many Python machines that work together in a grid. It's a big deal in the STEM fields.

FP matters mostly because of immutability. But you can achieve benefits of adoption of immutability in languages like Python too.

@nickbauman What does this refer to? > The folks behind iPython have even developed a distributed computing platform of many Python machines that work together in a grid.

@nickbauman : I agree that the JVM stratup time is slow (often 5-10 seconds for me); but how often do you restart it? A repl often lives hours, if not days for me

in fact, almost all of my restarts are of the form: I need to add a new pacekage, and cider hot inject whatever failed

I use it on Google's cloud and the Java SDK can't handle changes to the source without a full rebuild.

yeah, gae deploy is a pain

it's gerenarlly (1) get stuff workkng locally, (2) gae deploy script, (3) wait 30 seconds to deployt, (4) wait another 10 seconds for google to warm start my gae instance

gae workflow in clojure is %&#( b-s

http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/2/parallel/

I'm half tempted to rewrite the server portion in Hy for this precise reason

@nickbauman: wait wait wait, jvm clojure supports eval right? I wonder if its possible to (1) locally upload new *.clj files into google datastore, and (2) have the gae jvm just "grab from datastore, eval it"

it would incur additional datastore read requests, but allows faster dev if eval works

I don't think that would work?

@drewverlee http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/2/parallel/

why not?

99% of th time, I'm not adding a new jar; I'm just updating my *.clj files

for dev time, there's no reason to just have it just hot reload from datastore per request

then for real deploy, I'll aot it to jars

You'd need Google to add support for it?

no

my "clojure code" on gae is (1) read clj from datastore, (2) eval it on the fly

it's my clojure code, running on google's gae, that is (1) pulling from datastore nd (2) calling eval on the fly

I think the only real question is: can you do all this in < 15 secs

or whatever gae's request limitations are

OK now I understand.

You'd need gae to support eval and I don't think it does.

why do I need gae to support eval? I'm using Clojure's evail

why are we debating this, I should just test it 🙂

@nickbauman : if I got a handler that returned (eval "(+ 40 2)") would that convinced you we could eval, or do oyu have something more complex in mind?

@qqq that will do the trick.

if that works any sort of compilation will work.

Yeah that should work

The Java on Gae is highly sandboxed. You can't compile while it's running. I'm 99% certain.

If you're right that at would be awesome. I'll bet you a pint it doesn't work.

🍺

I've had a really bad time with previous python projects where I work so I wonder if any of you python folks can help me out on a few things.... (since python is probably not going away) - cases, I've seen foobar foo_bar fooBar FooBar and intfoobar all in the same project... are there rules for what cases means what? - UCS2/UCS4, which version do you guys perfer / use? - old python binaries, I need to compile them myself.... I've had builds broken going from 2.7.9 -> 2.7.10 because someone who wrote something deep in my dependency graph decided to use python's internal stuff (pretty sure it was numpy)

I can't upgrade my deps for bug fixes either because that will just break the entire dependency graph...

oh yeah, does everyone use virtualenv? I was pretty suprised when assigned my first python project that this is a thing (coming from a JVM / JS background)

how many people ran sudo pip install -r requirements.txt because of Permission denied? xD

I just haven’t experienced issues with “flow” because of the startup time. YMMV. As for immutability being the fundamental differentiator of FP, I have to disagree. It’s a completely different way of structuring and reasoning about data and state. I mean, I’m familiar with how to get immutability going in a lot of different languages that don’t do it by default, but there’s still a reason I reach for Clojure or other FP languages when I have a choice.

And as much of a dumpster fire as NPM may be, it’s heaven compared to pip.

and pip is probably heaven compared to the bash scripts in C/C++ projects

re: virtualenvs, yeah I always use them with Python

hey all

i'm brainstorming an idea for an async object (ala Alan Kay union Erlang?) msg passing paradigm but in clj(s)

anyone want to discuss?

basically idea is locally each obj is an atom with an interpreter that interprets the last msg sent to it as code

and each obj can send code to other objs to run in their local interpreter

the interpreters will obv evolve over time and they are how state is encoded, there is no other local state

it can bootstrap as a clojure interpreter

but then you have some objs that are UI objs that can code the other objs

and eventually each clj interpreter evolves into whatever the user wnats

you can instantiate new ones

what i'm wondering about is whether i want to reify the worldstate and for now just cooperative do them so that i can timetravel in god-mode

also is this on-topic enough to ask in clojure/clojurescript?

what's the most minimal restful clojure full stack dev set? I'm thinking ... reagent <> what-ajax-lib? <> liberator <> rethinkdb .... and I'm not even sure what http or ajax lib to use, there's also ring but looks like there's too many ring-*

ejelome you’ll need a routing like bidi or compojure.

Not sure if that’s going to be “minimal” any longer

so the router is separate from liberator? aw

so that's compjure, that's why, thanks @ordnungswidrig, that's an important part of the stack 😄

@ejelome ajax lib could be cljs-ajax or just write a function with google closure libs which is included anyway as part of clojurescript

thanks @sveri, will look into that 🙂

I had good experience with cljs-ajax, too.

And I like bidi more than compojure, but YMMV.

yes bidi is well thought out

just using google closure XHR is a great idea

closure XHR is a good idea.

@ejelome do you plan to publish your WIP on the “minimal stack”?

^ yes, eventually, but since there's numerous parts to assemble, it will take some time

it's what everyone is already doing, a web service that just processes data from a client via http

@nikki it's on-topic for CLJS I think.

And some (like myself) will most likely have plenty to say 🙂

@tbaldridge: awesome :D

:thinking_face: I think it's more reasonable to start with cljs-ajax than cljs-http because of core.async, simply because it's another layer to comprehend in order to better understand the cljs-http library, while cljs-ajax is straight from the closure library where clojurescript already has

or am I wrong on this?

I found the core.async aspect incredibly useful the other day. Saved me in a tight situation. It's hard to justify a rewrite to switch libraries due to nuanced differences. So normally it gets patched over with some hacky solution.

you have a point, although in this case, it's just an attempt to convert a very simple http requests to clojurescript, all for the sake of demo'ing 🙂

hey guys, what technology or programming standard/language (such as machine learning, iot, bigdata, functional-programming etc) do you think is gonna provide the best future and salary for programmers (or maybe it’s already providing)? what do you think is a good thing to invest?

Functional programming has always had better pay just due to less supply vs demand. That's one of the reasons I decided to get out of C# programming.

I think we might see a rise in logic/declarative programming

But in less concrete terms breadth of knowledge old and new is the best approach.

I think you can have a good future/salary by just being a good generalist developer, a good communicator, showing skills as a mentor, etc. But going from good to great salary requires specialisation of some sort — say you have published a few papers in a field of machine learning that relates closely to what some company is doing. That company will definitely pay a premium for that.

I would argue that those things are best when they’re not stylistic trends. For example learning distributed systems is clearly valuable whether it be IOT or other systems.

Not that IOT is a trend.

since this is open-ended, I'll just tell my personal opinion: * Technology: I would say VR (Virtual Reality) * Programming Standard: The standard of the language you'll use, e.g. if you use Python, use PEP * Programming Language: Scala

I think Scala has the highest salary as of the moment in terms of programming language

I think the main beef of Scala is the Apache Spark, but that's what I usually read though I'm not really interested with either of 'em

nice comments guys… I appreciate a lot

Agree with @jstaffans

In 20 years of experience in software, nobody pays me to do research. They occasionally ask me to help make the work I did for them patentable, but that’s about it.

(don’t get me started on software patents)

Researchers tend to be an academic breed.

Great if you’re in university or work for Google or something.

VR is insane, I just bought a vive a few days ago and having room scale VR is the closest thing we have to star trek’s holodeck.

yeah im enjoying my psvr