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#off-topic
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2016-10-16
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fellshard00:10:47

save my soul

fellshard00:10:54

wordpress and php are death incarnate

agigao03:10:54

Oh God! That’s just the feeling I got today at New England Give Camp :D

agigao03:10:17

I had to “enlighten" myself up in PHP and Wordpress to get project done, although I’ve never written single line of PHP

fellshard05:10:07

Oh man, you too?

fellshard05:10:11

I'm over here at Seattle GiveCamp

fellshard05:10:32

And nearly every single project is WordPress 😧

fellshard05:10:51

It's such a horrid platform, and yet NPOs get sold on it left and right because it's 'easy', until it's not

agigao19:10:18

yeah, me too.

agigao19:10:09

We’re in the same fate this weekend :D

agigao19:10:17

I’ve avoided diving into PHP code like a cancer.

agigao19:10:23

By the way strange thing was that, we were two people in the group. One, old Indian guy and me. He made some changes on the existing project and I made another project from scratch and he told the story like “we did it” and I helped him :D It was rather confusing :)) but eventually I said, all right, fock it. I don’t give a damn on this darned project. The worst part is I’ve never written a single line of PHP (Actually it is the best part, but)… it was much too cheap and worthless.

fellshard20:10:17

Pretty much. Not a valuable use of professional time and not the greatest value for the NPOs. Wonder if the vetting process needs to be tuned.

sveri20:10:57

Hm, I dont like PHP much myself, but, having written production code for almost two years in it there are worse things in the world. I am not so sure why it gets so much hate.

sveri20:10:23

I mean, I know why, but if you know what you do, you can get around most of the quirks pretty easily.

fellshard21:10:49

Time to bring out the article

fellshard21:10:36

Practical and philosophical reasons. In many ways, this would be my version of Dijkstra's Basic rants 😛

fellshard21:10:48

Note that the article is not mine

fellshard21:10:57

Just one I favour a lot.

borkdude21:10:20

<?php
 $xkcd = file_get_contents("https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/224:_Lisp");
 echo str_replace("Perl","PHP",$xkcd);
?>

fellshard21:10:38

There's even a bit of PHP in the discussion below, hah

fellshard21:10:41

Darn, there went my joke 😛

sveri21:10:40

@fellshard Yea, I know that article, and way more rants. But then again, its a language, it has more quirks than some others and its by far not as beautiful as clojure (no irony here), but then, its just a tool. All you have to know is how to use it 🙂

fellshard21:10:56

And as this article specifically notes, it's not a good tool, even. It doesn't even do what it purports to do well. Pick the best tool you can, not the lame and limping one that will hold you back every step of the way.

fellshard21:10:30

I fight against that "It's still a tool" mentality, because your tools shape how you think, and the way you think in PHP will damage you and the systems you write.

fellshard21:10:55

You don't move faster in PHP. Long-term maintainability is an extremely high concern, there. Again, take WordPress as one of the major platforms using it today.

borkdude21:10:52

There was an article from Slack about PHP, are you guys referring to that as well?

fellshard21:10:12

Yes, and I'd still not agree with their points.

fellshard21:10:41

"Just because they did use it doesn't mean they couldn't be improving by using some other tool."

borkdude21:10:33

Anyway, I have zero PHP experience so I won’t say anymore about it 🙂

fellshard21:10:35

Clojure is founded on stronger, more robust principles than PHP, and has far more thought going into careful construction of its core libraries and data model. Saying the two are comparable is frankly insulting to most reasonable languages that have done far less work than Clojure and are still reasonable to use.

fellshard21:10:13

Sorry. Strong words, it's just something you'll see if you dive in sometime.