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#off-topic
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2015-09-04
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borkdude15:09:54

@joost-diepenmaat: yeah, it was a really stupid problem. We send out a cropped .png file to a third party from our application. On screen it looks just OK, but it contains all the bytes of the original picture after the 'end of picture' marker

borkdude15:09:17

@joost-diepenmaat: so a picture that would normally be 63kb could still be 5MB

jeffmk15:09:44

Thoughts on this? Makes me very nervous as an IntelliJ IDEA/Cursive user. http://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/03/introducing-jetbrains-toolbox/

jstew15:09:38

My thoughts are that I'm thankful for Emacs simple_smile

jeffmk15:09:34

I’ve not learned Emacs yet, but it could be the impetus to for many. I’m happy to pay for this great software, but it’s unclear what happens when I don’t want to buy the latest version: > With JetBrains Toolbox, you [...] decide what to put in your Toolbox and for how long. > This new distribution model will replace the perpetual licensing model that currently is in place.

jeffmk15:09:21

The siren song of recurring revenue is hard to resist.

jstew15:09:05

For now, cursive is still free because it's based on the jetbrains community edition. Who knows what might happen when they make it into a paid product, though.

cfleming15:09:49

I’m the author of Cursive. I just saw this, so I haven’t had time to think about it properly yet.

cfleming15:09:33

There are some interesting things about this - one of them is that IntelliJ is now much, much cheaper than it was previously.

jeffmk16:09:51

Love Cursive, thanks. I’m not completely sure IntelliJ is significantly cheaper. Right now, perpetual licenses are $200 for new, $100 for upgrade. The yearly licenses are $120 for new (limited time promotion), or $90 for upgrade. (Also, when I bought IntelliJ 12, I got it for $100 for a half-off promotion.) It’s not 100% clear what happens if I stop paying under the subscription model, but it seems that I would no longer have access to the software. So while I don’t have perfect information yet, I don’t get the feeling this is a good deal for me. I should note that I didn’t purchase IntelliJ 13 but went from 12 -> 14, and was happily able to keep using 12 during the period I didn’t upgrade.

cfleming16:09:23

@jeffmk Trying to get at the new pricing page, but I’m travelling and it’s showing it to me for the wrong country - gah.

jeffmk16:09:31

Ah this was from the US.

cfleming16:09:49

That page doesn’t let me choose the country, or select personal/commercial license.

cfleming16:09:41

I’ve got to say, JetBrains’ messaging really sucks.

cfleming16:09:11

I mean, their target market are developers, but their blog post targets accountants.

jeffmk16:09:38

So looking back as an “individual developer", I bought IntelliJ 12 in spring 2013 for $100 (first-time purchase @ 50% off). I upgraded to 14 in fall 2014. For simplicity say that I’ll use 14 until spring 2016. That’s 3 years of software for $300, or about $100/year. So yeah, under the new model I’ll pay $90/year. 10% savings for timebombed software doesn’t seem super awesome to me, but really it may be a wash in the end, financially.

jeffmk16:09:02

Oops, 3 years for $200 I mean. hmm

jeffmk16:09:30

Well I screwed up the basic math behind that point, but that makes this subscription deal actually worse for sure. heh

cfleming16:09:08

Hmm, it would have been a wash if you hadn’t had the 50% deal at the start.

cfleming16:09:38

That means that it’s the same price assuming you currently upgrade every two major versions, except that you now always get the latest version.

jeffmk16:09:59

With the caveat that I must always upgrade, or have to switch IDEs (which is probably rare honestly).

jeffmk16:09:12

I think that point is more philosophical.

cfleming16:09:20

I spent a lot of time thinking about this for Cursive, and the subscription model makes upgrades much easier.

jeffmk16:09:43

In terms of backwards compatibility/support?

cfleming16:09:46

Or rather, much simpler.

cfleming16:09:01

Well, it means that essentially everyone will be on the latest version. Currently I have a single version of Cursive which pretty much everyone uses, which is what it would be like on the subscription model.

cfleming16:09:43

Assuming I start selling it with the perpetual licence model, I’ll have people running many different versions, which is quite a pain to deal with. It’s also tied in with the versions of IntelliJ that I want to support. I essentially have a matrix of versions to provide builds for which is doable but annoying.

cfleming16:09:32

It also means that a licence for Cursive may be perpetual, but you will only be able to use it with the current version of IntelliJ at the time your licence expires.

cfleming16:09:39

If you want to upgrade IntelliJ, you’ll have to upgrade Cursive too.

jeffmk16:09:40

That’s true.

nikp16:09:28

Any idea what's happening to the Community edition of IntelliJ? I wasn't too clear from the post, but assumed it would be sticking around

cfleming16:09:47

They’d be crazy to get rid of that. I wouldn’t worry about that.

jeffmk16:09:03

I also didn’t check to see what happens with open source licenses on the Ultimate Edition.

jstew16:09:06

From what I've read, the community version isn't going away.

nikp16:09:27

That's a relief

jstew16:09:22

There's always counterclockwise as well. I don't like it as much as cursive, but it's gotten pretty good.

cfleming16:09:53

Yeah, CCW is a nice environment, for sure.

phil_r16:09:34

Sort of related: I've been wondering, now that ClojureScript is self-hosting, how difficult it would be to sort of build a cheapo version of Cursive's indexer (can't index jar files obviously), translate that to JavaScript, and make that + nrepl an Atom plugin . I don't like Atom for a couple reasons, but it has surprisingly great paredit support and lots of potential.

phil_r17:09:23

Actually you can probably even index Clojure(Script) source in jar files, because I'm sure node.js has some sort of zip module.