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2015-07-27
Channels
- # beginners (3)
- # boot (8)
- # cljs-dev (10)
- # clojure (87)
- # clojure-art (6)
- # clojure-dev (13)
- # clojure-japan (8)
- # clojure-russia (60)
- # clojure-sg (2)
- # clojurescript (126)
- # clojurewerkz (1)
- # core-logic (10)
- # cursive (6)
- # datomic (30)
- # editors (10)
- # ldnclj (7)
- # off-topic (114)
- # onyx (7)
- # re-frame (7)
- # reagent (37)
thanks @pixel
To the apple fans - any idea how to configure icloud family sharing so we have different (family) accounts but can see all photos on any device without manually sharing each photo?
to the apple fans - brew doesn’t support the El Capitan beta.
also, you will need to re-install the command line xcode tools (xcode-select —install) before things like ‘git’ work. Other than that everything is working fine for the past hour or so.
@colin.yates: I did not run into too big problems with brew on El Capitan. Until now at least...
Running since about a wekk, I guess
@ordnungswidrig: loving the split screen
Hmm, never tried it I’m using phoenix as my window manager
are there keyboard shortcuts for split screen resizing?
for El Capitan? I can’t find any (sorry, I thought this was someone else asking about Pheonix!)
currently feeding my inner procrastination child with http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/9659/what-window-management-options-exist-for-os-x
I can ask it another way: how important is it for you guys (and girls of course!) to have a Clojure job instead of something else, like Scala, over other things that are important in a job.
@borkdude - I am in the fortunate position of being able to chose whichever technologies I like and after evaluating Scala and Clojure I chose Clojure. Having said that, I haven’t ruled out Scala longer term.
If I go back into consulting again I expect I would up my Scala skills so I could consult there. I suffer from ‘grass is always greener’ so probably not a good sample
@borkdude: well I basically told my current employer that I’d use Clojure for R&D and flat-out refused C# (hard bargain ;-)) but on the upside we’re now hiring Clojure devs 😉
@borkdude: not sure about Scala, my current preferences would be something like Clojure, Common Lisp, Java or Python/R for data science jobs
@joelkuiper: even Java?
well I’m usually in favour of polyglot approaches … most of the stuff I do has a hard data science/machine learning component … so the Java would probably just “glue” in this case
although Java also has very nice building blocks
I’ve been asked at somepoint to port existing Python code to Java, I’ve generally been able to avoid that or convince them that’s madness 😛 fortunately.
could be, or JRuby 😛
Jython is actually not bad
I used JRuby, it works pretty great if you're switching from let's say a Rails project on MRI -> JRuby, most things just work
same with Jython, although things like numpy/scipy might be tricky (C/native code integration), not sure
the only problem we had was the image processing library, which was normally dependent on imagemagick
yeah, native code is tricky
I’m really excited about Onyx, next release should feature good polyglot integration … should be amazing
Since I do Ruby and Java all day long, I would not be so picky around tech stack. All things equal, I will greatly prefer Clojure because of all tech + culture around it - I'm keen on get more immersed into Clojure-y software design
btw, I'm not saying I distaste Ruby, it's just an argument about "language matters but not so much"
one thing I found hard coming from Java land a while ago was how hard Clojure was, not in terms of syntax but just in terms of Opinion. The Spring/Hibernate stack was a great template for a whole lot of stuff. Coming to Clojure and suddenly the world was my oyster…. which can be bewildering. Definitely worth it, but yeah, I remember feeling ‘lost’ for quite a lot of the first few weeks.
is the Scala world oriented towards ORM (like Hibernate) or more like Clojure, simple SQL etc?
From the little I looked at it, there are some ORM-like libraries. One promised type-safe SQL but I can’t find it now.
I think the flexibility of constructing objects and DSLs over Java meant there were more choices. Not quite as free a mindset that comes from ‘maps and protocols - woot!’ but closer than Java
I wouldn’t say that exactly.
I think ORM is typically dirty tracking and a DSL to query objects
dirty tracking could use mutable objects but not necessarily
http://squeryl.org is the one I was thinking off (been a while)
borkdude: don't know if ORM imply mutability... Ecto (Elixir) is AFAIK a quasi-ORM on a immutable language
it's more a build-sql-with-nice-dsl-and-get-lists-of-hashes-back, but I think it's as far as we can get of ORM in immutability oriented languages
IIRC hibernate for example doesn’t track dirty fields, rather it serialises the object when it loads and then compares the new object to the serialised object - take that with a pinch of salt - been a long time since I used it
I thought I'd look up what they use in the Play framework, it seems to be the simple sql approach, while I've also used some ORM thing in the Play java version of that framework: https://www.playframework.com/documentation/2.0/ScalaAnorm
I seem to remember domain models would be constructed of case classes which are immutable so I would expect the ORMs would account for that.
http://slick.typesafe.com is another (from the Scala guys themselves). I remember when I was deciding they were still umming and aahing over the set of ‘authorised’ libraries.
did you ever look at Lift? That promised (and delivered I think) some nice things
the Martin Odersky Functional Programming course? Yeah, that was a great course. I salivated over Eclipse’s …. oh, what’s it called - you know, the ‘notebook’ feature..ah cannot remember.
The Scala equivalent of in-repl Lighttable
yeah. I loved the idea of saving those as project artifacts. A step towards (i)literate programming
worksheet - that’s the thingy
I keep meaning to get into Apple’s dev environment, I would hope it is pretty seamless?
@colin.yates: do you know http://gorilla-repl.org/ ?
I do. I did have a look at it but never used it in anger.
I was discussing with my colleague how it was a perfect UI for analysts
Xcode is pretty... humm... not good IDE. But get the job done. Maybe I was too much exposed to IntelliJ
@andrewhr: interesting, I would have expected polish over functionality from them
I keep meaning to get emacs configured for in-line evaluation but just keep running out of time and going back to Cursive!
<disclaimer>that is so much more about me than emacs or Cursive though, both of which are excellent tools</disclaimer>
how much of Apples sdk is scriptable? Is it possible to use anything other than xcode to develop or is it too much pain?
@colin.yates: officially just Objective-C and Swift
there was a video a few months back of somebody who had configured emacs so whatever they typed was evaluated with the results inserted into the document as comments. Similar to LightTable and the Scala worksheet.
aha, yes. I tried that for a while, but couldn't say I liked it very much. Feels too intrusive for me. I eval when I want to easily enough.
the one use-case I loved LightTable for though was when I had a stack of fns (e.g. (-> a b c)), if I was tracking down a bug then I could see how tweaking the start of the stack flowed through the stack
I also think there is a place for a ‘notepad’ where we can explain some rationale around the code. Not exactly documentation, not exactly tests, more like a persist segment of a REPL.
have you seen the new CIDER debugger? It is quite amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3JAlWM8qRM
that is nice. I must admit though, I never really got into using debuggers, but I do go (arguably) overboard with unit tests and preconditions
does that debugger work on cljs as well (not sure how nrepl and cljs fit together)?
yeah, the cider debugger rocks (although I never used it for real, just when I tried it)
ok. I must admit I oscillate between emacs and Cursive but Cursive usually wins. I am trying to use emacs for other things (org-mode/markdown mainly) but Cursive is usually where I end up after fighting emacs 😉
@colin.yates: there's nothing wrong with that. If Cursive would have existed in 2009, I probably wouldn't have learned emacs then
I do love the undo tree, avy, snippets, window management etc. in emacs.
yeah, exactly. I used emacs for about a year until Cursive came along. I used Cursive for Java and Ruby before that so it was like coming home.
I do want to carve out a chunk of time (maybe another few years) in order to get more into emacs 😉
since Emacs is the eminently hackable editor, and I know how to make it do my bidding, I could never move to another editor - especially not a closed-source one
I think that’s the point of dischord for me; "and I know how to make it do my bidding”. I haven’t invested the time.
Prelude with all the Clojure plugins has taken me a long long way, but I still can’t get feature parity with Cursive (find usages etc.)
I did, and it was great, but not everything worked across ClojureScript.
and I have a bizarre situation where I can ‘lein repl’ in a terminal, or in Cursive and then ‘start-system’ which starts my (Stuart Sierra’s) component system. Doing the same in emacs gives me an error stating one of the dependencies in my component graph isn’t provided. Very weird.
I just haven’t had the time to track the issue (which has to be in my code somewhere) down
whoa, that is pretty weird. What happens if you start lein repl
in a terminal, and then connect Emacs to that process?
that works fine
so some clue in the mystery lies in the difference between cider-connect
and cider-jack-in
- sounds like an issue on https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider is in order.
yeah, I also get a bunch of loading errors as well when I try and evaluate claiming namespace X didn’t load. If I go to that namespace and load it works fine.
I had assumed it was something flaky in my codebase which emacs is tripping up on but non-emacs was avoiding as opposed to something wrong in the tooling.
I learnt a long time ago not to blame other things until I was absolutely certain it wasn’t my fault. I have had enough egg on my face to feed an army!
hah, I can relate to that - but regardless of who is to blame, if it isn't strictly CIDERs fault, but cursive and lein repl does something smart to avoid tripping up your project, then my guess is that @bozhidar would be interested in that as well.
actually, I just tried it (lein repl in console then C-c M-c) and it worked. Just tried it again and nope, it is claiming missing dependency.
yeah, fair enough. I will spend some time and create a minimal case.
https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/1227 if I get some downtime I will look and see if I can make a reproducible minimal case.