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#membrane
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2023-12-06
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genekim00:12:42

@smith.adriane Was thinking of you as I listened to this Richard Feldman podcast — it’s about performance, but what really caught my attention is how difficult JavaScript is, but even worse, CSS. What got me bursting out loud laughing: • how difficult it is to float something left, without impacting other page elements • how it actually might be impossible to put two words on top of each other, without resorting to JS • We have a mental image of how uber-engineers like John Carmack and Steve Wozniak write incredibly performant code — but they probably couldn’t do complex things in CSS either • And the mental image programmers have that any junior designer can work magic with CSS is probably false • He bashes the W3(whatever) standard, saying understanding it is almost impossible, and it less like engineering, and more like complex case law — you have to understand all the laws, decades of precedents, etc. • There’s a part where Feldman describes building a home page for Roc, his programming language, and couldn’t get the live REPL to look identical on Chrome and Firefox. Out of frustration, he made Chrome correct, and Firefox incorrect, even though he uses Firefox. • Pretty flipping outrageous. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/things-web-devs-can-learn-from-game-devs-with-casey-muratori/id1602572955?i=1000637228476

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pez05:12:05

I agree HTML and CSS are the hard parts. I find Kevin Powell being worth following. https://youtube.com/@KevinPowell?si=Qo3afKanfhKE7KOn He’s such a wonderfully sweet guy and it’s obvious that he really loves css.

phronmophobic06:12:58

That sounds like a fun interview. I'll have to check it out! I definitely think UI programming could learn a lot from game programming.

genekim03:12:15

Thank you, @U0ETXRFEW ! I totally want to up my CSS game. I envy watching people who can use it well — heck, even can make the claim that they know what they're doing!!!!

pez07:12:48

Maybe what is different between CSS and most programming languages is the globalness of everything you do. Without the right mental model you quickly build a house of cards. It may seem to be working, but then some little change somewhere makes it all come crumbling down. In a regular programming language you can dabble without the correct mental model and let your model adjust with time. The better you get at it, the more composable your creations. But already in the beginning there is some composability and a few rules of thumb can keep you reasonably safe. Not so in CSS. It’s a bit of an all-or-nothing deal. Kevin Powell can compose with CSS. It’s amazing to watch.