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- # admin-announcements (43)
- # beginners (11)
- # boot (141)
- # cider (48)
- # clojure (82)
- # clojure-canada (1)
- # clojure-dev (1)
- # clojure-norway (20)
- # clojure-russia (6)
- # clojure-uk (12)
- # clojurescript (268)
- # datomic (14)
- # editors (5)
- # euroclojure (5)
- # jobs (2)
- # ldnclj (109)
- # off-topic (7)
- # om (6)
- # other-lisps (3)
- # re-frame (13)
- # reagent (3)
- # sim-testing (5)
- # sydney (1)
thinks it’s more likely to become about lifestyle choices re: eco-modes of transport
I guess if you wanted to go the "hummer" equivalent, you could even ride an elephant to work
I’ll stick with bicycle…now someone’s going to tell me the alloy in my new bike cost the planet as much as the CO2 from 8 buses!
Londoners all over the streets! It’s like: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--l8B9Qsmf24/VUiCzUNVljI/AAAAAAAACNc/vlnKyRLJPw4/s1600/Dora%2BMole.gif
@agile_geek: I've never bought a bike because I'm never confident enough in riding it without being hit by a careless driver. Do you encounter problems?
Cars in central London are generally slow and dodgeable - as long as you aren’t running red lights (like about 10% of the cyclists I see)
@jamiei: I’m new to cycling in London so I’ll let you know but regularly cycled in Newcastle (obviously not as busy) and I’ve had occasional run in but only been knocked off once in 8 years of regular cycling. Agree with @korny about pedestrians
@thomas: tried it with our cows when I was in my teens. They just stood there eating!
@agile_geek: red-light jumpers don't always have a death wish : i recall (from 10 years ago when i lived in london) there were plenty of junctions in the city of london where traffic stops entirely for pedestrian crossing, and it's perfectly safe to cross when there is a red light and there are no pedestrians
@mccraigmccraig: I personally don’t risk it but take your point.. and sometimes getting away in front of traffic is safer.
The trouble is (in my humble opinion of course!) that while it’s “safe” - in many cases it still adds to the resentment against riders.
i always thought that as long as you can cycle at ~20mph, and remember to look behind you every few seconds, then cycling in london traffic is quite safe, since it's slow moving and you can take a car space
… so I stop at pedestrian crossings, and red lights, and (gasp) sit my bike on the big painted bicycle area on the road. The slow lights can be frustrating, and I do cheat occasionally if I’m really in a rush, but usually I can afford to waste 2 or 3 minutes of my trip in this way. It gives me a chance to stretch and enjoy the view.
@korny: i never really cared about the resentment of irrational idiots. they don't resent you for any rational reason, so refraining from doing the thing they say they resent you for isn't going to stop them resenting you, because they are irrational and will find something else to resent you for
otfrom: lagavulin are less guilty of the wanky packaging (which renders me unable to bring myself to buy whisky) than many
@otfrom: Whisky would just put me to sleep. You need to go on a brisk bike ride young man, always wakes me up.
@agile_geek: I remember you mentioning this community (clojurians) having a lot of activity but since I joined it hasn’t been very busy. Did it die out after an initial flurry of activity?
@pupeno: over promise and under deliver that’s the story of my life! quite a lot of activity in clojure and clojurescript channels no?
I think that sums up Clojurescript atm. It seems to be getting a lot of interest. I am still trying to figure out why as I can’t see it being that attractive for existing JS devs but may just be the Clojurians who already used Clojure in the backend getting excited about full stack and homogeneous development.
I am sure the more knowledgeable ldnclj members who actually use this stuff in their day job will enlighten this poor Java developer 😉
Om is pickier, but simpler I think. When I get something in Om I think I understand it. W/reagent I feel like I'm cargo-culting.
I would love to use clojurescript if I had (a) a top-rate team who were keen and willing to learn it, (b) a client who was happy to take risks and (c) was happy to hire smart devs to own it after we were done. And (d) a client with a pressing need for a complex UI, or in other ways was able to justify the costs of (+ a b c d). 😕
I’m planning to spend some time learning React properly, as I’m far more likely to get a JS project than a cljs one, and I want ammunition to at least use something better than all the heavyweight MVC frameworks out there
glad I'm building for myself mostly. I often make the same decision when we do the odd bit of consultancy. But I feel like a bit of an arrogant jerk when I decide that a client isn't up for doing clj/cljs
I think I just finished prototyping my first ever piece of useful Clojure code. Woohoo!
korny: clients I’ve talked to over last 2 years wouldn’t even consider Clojure (or even Scala) let alone cljs! Mind same clients think Scrum is cutting edge & Kanban is voodoo..(rooted in manufacturing in 1958 for goodness sake! It’s older than ‘waterfall’!!)
otfrom: problem is I never know what I’m doing…may explain my metaphorical bruises!
something to be said for ‘fail fast’ though. Kind of why I slightly bias myself to the microservices early side of the ‘microservices vs monolith to start’ argument.
it drives out interfaces early but if you mess them up and scale to fast (too many dependent consumers) you pay the price.
My favourite architectural trend is log driven distributed systems (i.e. Kafaka) cos it just feels like my message/event driven architectures from 10-15 yrs ago but done right. Always felt SOA via service calls was too tightly coupled for my liking… and gave you potential orchestration issues. Persistent ordered messages, I like the sound of that.
I feel I should stop contributing here as I really don’t have much Clojure/Clojurescript stuff to discuss! 😈
the problem with SOA was the vendors wanted too much intelligence in the infrastructure
though I quite like the kappa architecture too http://radar.oreilly.com/2014/07/questioning-the-lambda-architecture.html
otfrom pupeno : i've done a load of om, and not very much reagent, but reagent seems very much the simpler based on my limited experience
mccraigmccraig: I find it easier, but not simpler, thus the magic bits. I can see all the moving parts in Om
and om sometimes punishes you long after you know what you are doing quite well, e.g. trying to update props from properties made from patched together bits of the cursor tree
hmm. well, i'm about to start a new project in reagent, so i guess i'll find out
otfrom: which moving parts can't you see in reagent ? or do you just mean that all your data is in the cursor, so trivially findable ?
mccraigmccraig: keep us posted on how you find it. Without experiencing either Om or Reagent other than tutorials I’d be interested in ‘experience reports'
mccraigmccraig: maybe I've not done enough reagent yet. Just felt like the only way to make the component was to put it in  and I didn't see how to control it