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#ldnclj2015-06-04
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agile_geek08:06:10

@xlevus: Cheers. I enjoyed talking…it’s shutting me up that’s the problem (ask @otfrom!). I always like to make another convert to the Church of Emacs 😉

agile_geek08:06:56

@mccraigmccraig: Let me know what you think of clj-refactor. I think it adds some missing goodness. Wish I knew enough elisp to actually contribute to it!

quentin08:06:48

@agile_geek: i started using emacs the day before your talk, you got me even more convinced

xlevus08:06:44

I'm not 100% convinced about emacs (yet). But I think that's partially due to having vim so deeply ingraned I nearly end conversations with :q!

agile_geek08:06:00

@quentin: cool. I’m still learning. Shout if you have issues and we can be confused together!

agile_geek08:06:43

@xlevus: If your happy with vim, stick with it (or try Evil mode in Emacs 😉 )

thomas08:06:44

good morning

xlevus08:06:22

@agile_geek: I'm using spacemacs. And tbh I'm not overly happy with vim.

agile_geek08:06:12

@xlevus: haven’t looked at spacemacs…what do you think of it?

xlevus08:06:53

It's quite vimmy. and I like the emacsy leader-combos with the little help dialog to find the next button to press

quentin08:06:14

i tried it, but i don’t like getting too much customisation at once. i like adding it by small touches

xlevus08:06:25

the whole tabs/projects thing doesn't make sense to me yet. Usually with vim I've got multiple virtual desktops, each with a terminal vim instance, then multiple in-editor tabs each with 3 or 4 split buffers.

agile_geek08:06:18

I’ve come from the world of Java IDE’s (Eclipse, Intellij, Netbeans) and I found moving back to just having buffers next to each other rather than tabs most productive part of using Emacs.

agile_geek08:06:47

I would be interested to here if anyone heavily uses Light Table (which I’ve looked at very briefly 14 months ago) or NightCode (which I’ve not looked at at all)

quentin08:06:31

i tried nightcode

quentin08:06:44

it felt slow so i quickly moved on

quentin08:06:54

don’t know if it improved on this side

martintrojer08:06:11

all roads leads to emacs/vim, don’t fight it.

quentin08:06:52

light table has been my clojure editor before emacs

thomas08:06:04

I use LT a lot and quite like it...

thomas08:06:27

but it has it flaws. sometimes you need to restart it for instance.

benedek08:06:24

afaik light table needs some contributing. so anybody in the search of some projects to contribute to will be wlced there

benedek08:06:08

@agile_geek: emacs lisp is much less scary since dash.el and s.el. as you know clojure already it should not be too difficult to pick up (just an other lisp 😉 )

agile_geek08:06:05

@benedek: you are making a big leap assuming I know Clojure 😉

benedek08:06:36

i’ve actually seen you do 😉

thomas08:06:33

@benedek: I know. Just never got round to it (and need to ask my employer permission to work on it, which is a pain, al though they'd probably agree)

benedek08:06:29

lately @rundis did some really nice work in LT around refactoring for clj, don’t know if he is around here… (not in #C0522EZ9N i guess…)

martintrojer08:06:27

Can’t see LT surviving after chris left it.

martintrojer08:06:50

That slot in the editor market is already filled by atom

martintrojer08:06:02

So if you have time to spare, and want to avoid emacs/vim for religious reasons, put your efforts into better clojure support in atom.

thomas08:06:05

@martintrojer: I think you are right regarding LT.... but my heart likes to think differently.

agile_geek09:06:42

I think having invested a lot of time in emacs & given the pain I went through rewiring synapses to key bindings I’ll stick with it. Especially as it ends up being the OS rather than an editor! (love it or hate it!).

agile_geek09:06:29

However, I’m trying to convince Java dev’s from the corporate world (like me) to use Clojure and Emacs is a step to far for them to learn at same time.

agile_geek09:06:45

I haven’t used Cursive but given the number of Java dev’s who know and love IntelliJ IDEA I suspect this might suit them?

martintrojer09:06:49

If you taken the jump to emacs then you’re sorted (for this life and the next)

martintrojer09:06:23

but I agree, for the bigger picture of Clojure adoption emacs/vim is a blocker.

agile_geek09:06:03

@martintrojer: I am converted, I have seen the light, kneel and worship in the Church of Emacs.

martintrojer09:06:34

having said that, not sure I want armies for Java devs devouring our little language.

martintrojer09:06:47

If emacs can keep them at bay, I’m kind of OK with that.

agile_geek09:06:27

@martintrojer: Not sure if I should be offended or not (as Java dev with 19 years experience) but I know what you mean. What do you feel about ex COBOL, Fortran programmers?

benedek09:06:12

so doing a refactor-nrepl integration for atom then? anyone? 😉

martintrojer09:06:33

I’m happy to have the good/interested ones come over. My fear if the zombie hordes.

benedek09:06:59

i’ve done most of my java dev (10+ years) in emacs too btw

martintrojer09:06:05

@benedek: that would be awesome, the atom community is pretty big already and now that Microsoft has come onboard….

martintrojer09:06:22

You could probably carve yourself a nice career doing atom stuff

benedek09:06:30

those times before 1.5 when emacs jdee gave nice support (even a REPL like beanshell)

benedek09:06:55

it seems to be CoffeeScript tho mainly...

agile_geek09:06:26

@martintrojer: I think we are safe for the moment as the Zombie herd will struggle to write much Clojure. I found it hard to rewire brain.

benedek09:06:15

oh well… i might have a go with it at some time. but really if anybody interested to give atom some clj/refactor love… let me know 😉

agile_geek09:06:08

@martintrojer: It’s sad as I remember Java being cool kid on the block with lots of interesting potential. What happens when kids grow up and fall in with the wrong crowd!

quentin09:06:13

i discovered paredit yesterday. Clojure becomes so much easier to write after that

agile_geek09:06:35

@quentin: paredit is a pre-requisite for Clojure in emacs but watch out for kill/yank breaking parens (C-q is your friend)

martintrojer09:06:47

@agile_geek: a victim of its own success

xlevus09:06:41

offtopic. but jayzus, python editing in (spac)emacs is terrible.

quentin09:06:59

thanks for the tip agile_geek

agile_geek09:06:46

@quentin: no problem. Fixes unbalanced parens if you kill a region that you’ve manually marked & missed open/closing parens

thomas09:06:57

me should have another look at emacs ...... again.

quentin09:06:45

thomas: the brave clojure emacs tutorial is quite good if you want to get started easily

benedek09:06:56

@thomas: example config for clj dev if you don’t go the spacemacs way: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/example-config

benedek09:06:18

gives you cider, paredit, cljrefactor, flycheck for clojure

thomas09:06:23

thanks guys. I'll have a look at it

agile_geek09:06:11

@quentin: Selecting region by s-exp is way to avoid this issues too. C-M-spacebar when positioned on opening parens

quentin09:06:44

will try this too, cool

quentin09:06:20

and now, i need to make an org mode file to have a cheat sheet of interesting emacs keybindings

mccraigmccraig10:06:29

@agile_geek: ooo i didn't know C-M-spacebar... i've been using the more general C-spacebar, C-M-f

agile_geek10:06:24

@mccraigmccraig: C-M-f and C-M-b are great for navigation around s-exprs

mccraigmccraig12:06:18

@broquaint: that's where i ended up simple_smile

benedek13:06:30

used to have this lying around in the office when started with clj

thattommyhall14:06:24

@martintrojer: I didnt know Chris left lighttable

thattommyhall14:06:36

mate of mine still there I think, fierce smart

thattommyhall14:06:00

oh, thats the same thing though I think

thattommyhall14:06:03

LT became that

thattommyhall14:06:20

thats where my mate Jamie works

tcrayford14:06:33

@thattommyhall: yeah, they're the same thing

tcrayford15:06:01

LT just didn't fit their goals anymore, hence eve

tcrayford15:06:17

their dev blog is interesting as hell: http://incidentalcomplexity.com/

tcrayford15:06:23

they're all about dat datalog these days

thattommyhall15:06:51

that might be Jamies influence

thattommyhall15:06:57

he loves datalogs

thattommyhall15:06:48

which is top of my sabbatical list

tcrayford15:06:53

yeah, I spent a bunch of time whilst on a road trip in autumn last year reading those papers

tcrayford15:06:55

damn fine stuff

thattommyhall15:06:06

well, after Physics and Combinatorial Game Theory

tcrayford15:06:08

(shoutout too sabbaticals)

thattommyhall16:06:26

like Rich said, "when is the last time you thought about something without getting interrupted for a [day week month year]"